Discussion on the dreadful process of finishing a song

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generator

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I would like to get your story on this... How you guys deal with and how you treat it. I deeply do not like the process of finishing what I started for the following reasons.

1. Creativity Process Stopped
2. Listening to the track over and over makes me lose perspective and objectivity so I am never happy with the arrangement the next day I listen with fresh years and the dreadful cycle starts.

It's just really discouraging... does it really come down to arrangement theory and knowing when to just leave the track alone?
 
I'm actually considering doing a tutorial series on just this topic sometime in the future. It's something we all (with very few exceptions) struggle with.

I said this in another thread, and I'll say it again here: Make sure to be quick and efficient when you are composing your song/track/whatever. Listening to it over and over is definitely a recipe for failure. Just go through and write a simple melody until you come to a natural stopping point. Now go back and add your harmonies under the melody, tweaking both as it makes sense. Only THEN should you be worrying about fancy sound design, tweaking the mix, etc.

Easy to use software has been both one of the worst things AND one of the best things to ever happen to music composers. It's bad because people are now confusing the sound design, mixing, and composition processes to the point where they fall into despair and quit before finishing a track. Software's a good thing in the hands of someone who disciplines themselves to separate between these stages of the process.

By the way, this isn't me being critical from some kind of high horse. I know about this stuff because I have made (and sometimes still make) the same mistake.

In short: Get some basic sounds together that inspire you enough to write melody, harmony, and/or beats. Get a skeleton track put together. Now you have something DONE. When you go back over it, you'll of course tweak the sounds, and those sound tweaks will in turn lead to tweaking the arrangement. The balance between the sound design and the arrangement will evolve organically, rather than being a confusing, frustrating mess.

I hope this helped. I sympathize with this issue BIG TIME!

- Nick
 
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Hey Nick, thanks for the words of wisdom as well as in my previous post.

Ya you know it's a bit#. You hit the nail right on the head with the effect that new technology has on the production process. Always get sidetracked by tweaking in the composition process. What I usually do is start with a 2 bar or 4 bar loop. And get the core of the track down and listen to it too much cause sometimes the loop itself is just so dope. But when it comes to turning it into a 4 minute track let's say... that's when the headaches start... lets see what other people have to say.

But i will try your advice:

1. Lay down the elements quickly
2. And don't just listen.

Yah it takes discipline... it's almost like telling a guy not to masturbate, but I'm sure it'll make a difference
 
Yep, it's the "I just wrote an awesome 4 bar loop" syndrome. I suffer from it chronically. I'll sit there and jam out to that same loop forever, and then all of a sudden I'm sick of it and I have no more energy/inspiration to write. Lately, however, I've been trying to take my own advice and adhere to the discplined approach. The results have been FAR more promising than my previous efforts. There's a lot to be said for not thinking and just doing.

Really cool thread you've started here. Let us know how you get along and what you find out. I hope you find something that can work for you!

- Nick
 
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Hey guys,

Thought I would add to this post. When you are composing a song, I find that if you are in a creative mood, you will spit out a few good ideas at once. But it usually does not last very long, so as Nick said, try to spit it out as quickly as possible. That way you get a good creative base to work with. Then the game is expanding on those ideas through adding different instruments etc, which is much easier to do.

Also, when you are trying to perfect a song, make sure you rest your ears and do it in short bursts, as I find you come up with the best ideas at the very start of working. Getting discouraged and being unhappy withyour progress can be a good thing, because it keeps your standards high, and after listening to a track over and over, it needs to be absolutely amazing to impress you still, so work with it, and try and make it amazing.
 
A dear friend of mine who has been a songwriter for many years gave me this advice:

"If you get to the point where you never, ever want to hear the song again, it's done."
 
Any more advice on this? Or any other threads? I couldn't find any thru search, there was too many that didn't have to do with this.

I have so many hot loops but dread making them into full songs. Adding elements, making the transitions, and deciding on arrangement (not too bad), etc.. But when I finally do it, they all sound 100x better than when I started. It's just such a painful process to me.
 
Sunraze said:
A dear friend of mine who has been a songwriter for many years gave me this advice:

"If you get to the point where you never, ever want to hear the song again, it's done."
Click to expand...

I love that.

The problem is the expenditure of time. You want the idea to move quickly, as your mind does but there are obstacles everywhere which slow this down. The most personal account I can give it having your inner rhythm and body-clock revolve around the sun and find a way to be stimulated, energise the mind and catalyse your creative synapses within their infinite potential.

I feel I have superior taste in music to all and it's funny that I am ten times more picky when I create something which, in aesthetic and merit, might be technically better than some of the pieces I listen to.

It's because I routinely listen to these pieces as a way of being inspired to make music. I don't want to routinely listen to my own recordings unless I can't remember doing them.

That's why I mainly want to collaborate, jam, create music with ulterior purpose and sample records.
 
Nick@SoundDT said:
Yep, it's the "I just wrote an awesome 4 bar loop" syndrome. I suffer from it chronically. I'll sit there and jam out to that same loop forever, and then all of a sudden I'm sick of it
Click to expand...

I get this too. Somehow I get way more ideas when I stop playing the loop, but play it in my head. Anyway, finishing songs is for sure the least fun, but most rewarding part of the whole routine. My thoughts:

1. If you get sick of a loop, that could be a sign that it's good enough to listen to, but not good enough ENOUGH - try tweaking it until it's even catchier than before. These tweaks often become the basis of an arrangement.
2. Don't finish everything. Keep starting as many tracks/sets as you like, feeling no pressure to ever finish them. Some ideas, though good, just lead nowhere. Backburner em.
 
generator said:
I would like to get your story on this... How you guys deal with and how you treat it. I deeply do not like the process of finishing what I started for the following reasons.

1. Creativity Process Stopped
2. Listening to the track over and over makes me lose perspective and objectivity so I am never happy with the arrangement the next day I listen with fresh years and the dreadful cycle starts.

It's just really discouraging... does it really come down to arrangement theory and knowing when to just leave the track alone?
Click to expand...

It is a chaotic process and will be different from song to song. There will be no right answer.

Some songs you will hate from the moment you create it (yet everybody else will love it), while other songs you might love (yet most people hate it).

So there is a fine line between satisfying yourself (usually your worst critic), and satisfying the audience (critical friends who can criticize your songs).

It is good to write a song with a particular audience in mind (keep in mind sometimes this audience will be just you). In this case mix, compose and do stuff alone.

If you have an audience in mind, I recommend not mixing alone. People can keep you on track a lot of times.
 
Usually, I make that same 4 bar loop or something, jam out to it for a little bit and when I'm ready to add more I just blank out and don't know what to add.
 
im a rapper,turned rapper somewhat producer and i dont have this problem ,im makin a beat and if i like it, im writing while i make it,then i go lay my lyrics down and go back and change whatever needs it in the beat ,,voila song finished takes no more than a hour and a half
 
hiphopdj said:
Any more advice on this? Or any other threads? I couldn't find any thru search, there was too many that didn't have to do with this.

I have so many hot loops but dread making them into full songs. Adding elements, making the transitions, and deciding on arrangement (not too bad), etc.. But when I finally do it, they all sound 100x better than when I started. It's just such a painful process to me.
Click to expand...

I never thought someone out there would get me. This is the exact way I feel. Gotta cure it.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------
b52ravens said:
Usually, I make that same 4 bar loop or something, jam out to it for a little bit and when I'm ready to add more I just blank out and don't know what to add.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat ugh. gotta figure it out
 
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