Composition Issues

D

DjG

New member
Ok, this is a heavy rant i got going on, but i will make it as small as possible for your sake. I am going thru a miserable time trying to make songs, it is a combination of frustration (since i can't make a darn freaking song worthwile for the last 4 months), guilt (since i have spent a bunch of money on gear and i haven't produce anything worthwile) and almost a sense of dislike (since everytime i sit on my studio i get flashbacks of how frustrated i get). Music making has to be fun, and don't get me wrong i am not short on ideas, hell......i got about 40 new patterns in my MC 909 and everytime i sit down it seems another one pops up. To me all my patterns sounds like the money...like the bomb, yet when it comes time to make a song...i end up hating the mfacker. The worst is when i go to Guitar Center or another store, and just for fun i start doing something and it sounds so freaking great and i record the sounds and the settings on my Samsung Phone(like Ahorton i allways carry my phone that has a digital recorder)...then i get home and it sounds like shiat.

i am freaking loosing it....what in the world am i going to do with all this patterns? they sound good, have amazing handcrafted sounds by the amazing DjG yet i can't make a song out of one. So this is what i have done so far:

1. Listen to my favorite songs, according to me "disect" them and analize the composition and flow. Yet all my favorite songs don't have a constant flow and it changes or repeats it self all the time. I tried to do the same on my songs and they end up to my ears to repetitive, or to out of wack

2. look for a "format" or song creating "kit" in books....that is like a pattern: 32 measures of this, 16 measures of that, etc. I can't find squat on the subject....i find a lot of messages on how to make songs with topics such as "JUST HAVE FUN" (i feel like telling the author to fak off and give me some structure and then w/ the use of creativness i will build upon it and have fun)...the good old "FOLLOW YOU INNER SELF" (yeah sure, my inner self composer is either MIA, depressed or getting drunk somewhere with my other inner selfs), and the worst one, the one that makes me freaking want to go medieval on their arse "THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO DO A SONG...JUST DO IT" (ok, whatever...somehow i allways end up on the Wrong side).

3. The hands off aproach and meditate, watch tv, play x box, etc. waiting for either my composing inner self comes back home, feels better or become Illuminated by the Universal Light of all wisdom or my Guardian Composing Angel/Guide. I just end up felling either more guilty, frustrated or hateful.

4. I tried the Silva/JosephMurphy/Tony Robbins method....the whole Personal Power, It is done therefor i did it, I compose therefor i am, Awaken the Giant with in....but the Giant seem to be either comatose or took some bad GHB and he aint waking up. I guess i can't BS a BS'er.

5. Post my pain in good group...ok...i am doin' that right now

I need some sort of foundation i guess, i studied piano for 15 years, but i am not planning to write a simphony yet, just a good electronic song. Is there some sort of "production" blue print for a song (there has to be one, it was posted here to start w/32 measures and the end 32 measures...but what happens in the middle?) on which i can build upon practice and then once i get the juices going I can start Having Fun, Letting my Inner Self go wild w/ the ideology that there is no right or wrong way, Awaken the darn Giant and doing something with all this damn patterns.

I posted once that the best way to learn synthesis is to practice, but i practiced the basics and started to get good at it. Same thing i am trying to do w/ the songs, practice the basics and moving on from there.

ok....i'm out
 
I've known that feeling at times, DjG. Do you know what you're trying to do with your music? What your motivation is in making it? What exactly you want it to sound like when done?

I find that if I'm not moving forward, it's because I don't know the answer to those questions.

Yeah, I know it sounds like a bunch of hippy crap.

I like the active hands-off approach. Don't work on your music. Go team up with someone in the collaboration forum and write tracks that take the p1ss out of each other's loops :) Remix theme songs from Xbox games and tv shows. Ask someone else to dictate a style for you...

Throw new input into the mix. Eventually, something you encounter might strike the right chord with the stuff you've already done, and you'll know what you want to do next.

Stick with it!
 
Don't go medival but "THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO DO A SONG...JUST DO IT" is a good idea.

The concept here is to understand that pushing through a rough patch is better than wallowing around in it.

OK.. so it sounds like sh!t.. big deal, finish the mf-er and move on. Release that demon.

Also do not think that every not you put down has to be a masterpiece. We would all like to do that but if you start putting pressure on yourself (even subconciously) you won't get too far.

If you've ever played basketball, you'll probably know that shooting free throws is easy in practice but in crunch time, the basket seems to shrink and it gets pretty darn tough.

Also try to get some feedback. Don't be embarrassed to post in the review forums and have people tell you how to make your tracks better.

You have a lifetime left to learn and grow so just relax and go with the flow, man :)
 
i am having the exact same problem as DjG and i dont know how to over come it myself. i have again tried taking a break, listenin to other songs and so forth but nothting works! help me out as well.
 
Ok.....you are my kind of guy. Angry, pissed off, and ****ing tired...(but never angry at anyone).
I have posted a similar topic also. I have about 40 unfinished songs, that sounded great for a while, but now I hate them all. I not only have trouble finishing the songs, but I have also trouble findig the right great sounds in the middel of the song. Hey...I have even trouble expressing myself on how I feel in this forum (probably depressed..). , but now I will do it. I have this coooooooool consept/idea for a record and how i could sound, but I cant finish!!! So far I have used loops, and have trouble using the softsynths....****...if I only new how to use the softsynth so that I could find the right sounds, and make the the same rythm and/or bpm as the rest of my songs!! I am trying to think smart and comfort myself that there is a reason why not everyone can make great songs, just those who have has passed this fase already, and I envy them, but I aslo know that they deserve it if they have passed this frustrating fase...

What I am trying to say is that I cant help you, because I have not passed the fase myself, and probably no one in this forum eighter. Unless Kruder and Dorfmeister, Moby, Goldfrapp, Groove Armada, Røyksopp etc..etc.. is here? If you guys are...please contact me!!

My favourite band is Kruder and Dorfmeister.....they are sickening great!!! When I hear their songs, especially "shades" I almost cry because it is so perfect!! Try to listen to it and feel the groove...(it probably wont make you any better, but it might inspire you). I really wish my music some day could make people feel the way I feel when I listen to great songs.

Well sorry for this long posting...
Good luck to you.

Peace & Love

PS! For your information, I am trying to make electronic music (hip hop, trip hop, electronica, house etc..)
 
I think i have found the source of my problem. For one it is the VSTs i use. they dont seem to sound good togeather and i am still quite new to most of these VSTs so that i am still not sure of some of the features even after reading the manuals. I listen to some well written trance songs and i hear all the sounds but i still question how they did it. i am somewhat limited with cash so thats why i dont have massive ammouts of hard synths in my studio but rather many software synths. Are their any webpages or articles that would help me out?
 
Pyra, how many different VSTis are you using at a time?

When I first started using Nuendo, I know I overloaded my tracks with every softsynth I could get my hands on. Now, though, I find that just working with one or at the most two per track helps make it sound more coherent. Right now, in fact, I'm trying to limit myself just to z3ta+...it's deep and relying only on it for a while is forcing me to really understand how it works.

It's easy to keep throwing more effects and more instruments into your music to try and give it that full sound...it generally never works though.

Pick the synth you enjoy working with the most and try restricting yourself to it for a month.

Good luck!
 
I usually use only 1 or 2 VSTi's at a time. I use Powerwave P8, Triangle II, FM7, and V-Station. I only ever use 1 or 2 on a track. These synths sound great on their own but when i attempt to mix them togeather, they dont flow togeather. Are their any other good synths i should try out or look into?
 
Hello DJG

I know your problems and I had them too.

Go to Tweakheads site and read all he got,it's really good.
Get a Pro soundcard to get the best sound you can get. I have a TerraTec EWS88 for 400 EURO's , and it's good, but if you have more money there are some better,I've heard.
Get Cubase SX and Reason 2.5 and Rebirth , they are combined the ultimate tool's for Techno and so on ...

The biggest problem you have is that you are missing know how.
To solve this you should sit down with a song you like or want to sound like, and write down every beat.
When comes one instrument and when it goes, so you get a matrix of what a song construction looks like.

Having patterns is good but you have to take them and alternate them in the way that they flow together and tell a story.Mostly you take a basic pattern and change it a bit at the begin or end.

RTHM,BASE and MELODIE , they have to fit together, and don't forget some
fx-sounds or noise's for the right accent in the song, because they can give the right spice.

At Tweakheads is an very good intruction of ''How to make a song'',
but read also the articles of balancing the instruments to the right channel.
I had the problem that my song's had no real dimension, they sounded 2dimensional. All instruments need a own way out of the speaker's, otherwise they compete and you won't get them pure out. Use headphones to do this balancing and give every snare,hh,perc,bass or other instrument it's own way out of the speakers,just a few degrees different from the others and choose right or left channel,but wisely.

Use delay a lot,if you go for some good trance, it's the miracle of trance.
On bass for a weeping baseline,or trancy melodie, also you will wonder how good the hat's or snare's push
thru delay.

I hope you get it now, and that my english wasn't to bad to understand.
I am from in Bosnia,sorry.

Good Luck
 
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I dont think anyone can fix this problem for you. Usually when I do crappy songs I either dump it or, take it and either rewrite it or, take smigits of it and use it in other songs. What I find is that mabye I only like one or two things in my songs so I use them. I VERY rarely like the entire thing finished. I'm very picky as in what songs I let other human ears hear. Whats really fun to do is to listen to a really overproduced track and if you cant guess or figure out what they are doing try and figure out what you would do to achive a similar sound. Thats what I do. I see alot of posts of people who just get frustrated with their music. The best thing to do is walk away from it for a bit. When I do that it makes me excited about doing it again just like it was the first time. Sometimes if you let your head clear you'll know what to do with different patterns and such.....

-geoff
 
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