Circle of fifths.
- Thread starter Drayan
- Start date
and Qmech! was following ben's reply till i came to G dom. what's G dom? G dominant? Dominant to the 'C' key? isnt that just G major?Dominant just refers to the V chord (the fifth triad) of any key (major or minor at least). The seven triads in a key are named:
Tonic (I), supertonic (ii), mediant (iii), Subdominant (IV), Dominant (V), submediant (vi), and leading tone (vii dim)
Seventh chords are also pretty popular out there in theory land. Seventh chords are quadrads (four note chords) not triads. IV maj 7 chords and V dom 7 chords are pretty common when creating a chord progression. I maj 7 chords or I dom 7 chords can be found in jazz and blues respectively, but aren't too common in rennaisance through classical theory. I7 chords begin to show up more commonly around the romantic period when composers like Debussy start using them more.
A quadrad simply consists of a triad with an extra interval of a third stacked on top. For instance
key of C:
F maj 7 - F A C E
G dom 7 - G B D F
The subdominant seventh chord of any major key will always be (diatonically speaking - meaning, naturally within the key) a Major 7th chord.
Major 7th chords are characterized by having a major triad with a major 7th interval stacked on the very top (counting from the root). You could also think of it as a major triad with an extra major third stacked on the top of the triad. For example:
F A C - major chord
add a major third on top of C (which would be E) and...
F A C E - major seventh chord
Dominant 7th chords (which are very common for cadences - most chord progressions end by going from V to I, or from V7 to I) are characterized by having a minor 7th interval added (counting from the root) to a major triad. Likewise, another way of thinking about this is adding an extra minor third stacked on top of the triad. For example:
G B D - major chord
add a minor third on top of D (which would be an F) and...
G B D F - dominant seventh chord
You can find out which quadrads exist naturally within a key by stacking four thirds on top of eachother starting at every note of the scale.
Long story short, saying the dominant chord is the same as saying the V chord. The dominant seven chord arises from the adding of a diatonic seventh to an existing dominant chord (using the root of the dominant chord as the reference for the seventh)
Hope this helps...
Tonic (I), supertonic (ii), mediant (iii), Subdominant (IV), Dominant (V), submediant (vi), and leading tone (vii dim)
Seventh chords are also pretty popular out there in theory land. Seventh chords are quadrads (four note chords) not triads. IV maj 7 chords and V dom 7 chords are pretty common when creating a chord progression. I maj 7 chords or I dom 7 chords can be found in jazz and blues respectively, but aren't too common in rennaisance through classical theory. I7 chords begin to show up more commonly around the romantic period when composers like Debussy start using them more.
A quadrad simply consists of a triad with an extra interval of a third stacked on top. For instance
key of C:
F maj 7 - F A C E
G dom 7 - G B D F
The subdominant seventh chord of any major key will always be (diatonically speaking - meaning, naturally within the key) a Major 7th chord.
Major 7th chords are characterized by having a major triad with a major 7th interval stacked on the very top (counting from the root). You could also think of it as a major triad with an extra major third stacked on the top of the triad. For example:
F A C - major chord
add a major third on top of C (which would be E) and...
F A C E - major seventh chord
Dominant 7th chords (which are very common for cadences - most chord progressions end by going from V to I, or from V7 to I) are characterized by having a minor 7th interval added (counting from the root) to a major triad. Likewise, another way of thinking about this is adding an extra minor third stacked on top of the triad. For example:
G B D - major chord
add a minor third on top of D (which would be an F) and...
G B D F - dominant seventh chord
You can find out which quadrads exist naturally within a key by stacking four thirds on top of eachother starting at every note of the scale.
Long story short, saying the dominant chord is the same as saying the V chord. The dominant seven chord arises from the adding of a diatonic seventh to an existing dominant chord (using the root of the dominant chord as the reference for the seventh)
Hope this helps...
yeap i tried this out and i got the idea now that certain chords are substituted to to another thats 'relative' to the progression. how can i find information on substitutions? as i want to break away from the standard progressions in pop or rock and have certain substitutions that allows me to have a different 'feel' so called. where would i find relevant substitutions as i start plotting progressions for my songs?
The first an easiest I know is flat 5 sub.
Everything can be seen as II V I progressions, even if at first it doesn't appear to be, deep down everything can be made into a II V I.
Now.... a flat 5 sub.... takes the V7 chord, goes a b5 from there to....
II Dmin7
V G7
I CMaj7
II Dmin7
(V) Db7
I CMaj7
Nice chromatic run yeah? .... Well the Db7 is a "secondary dominant" substitution for the G7. Looking at the notes they are similar enough to be used.
.....
Another is "plurals" which I never really "got".... II subs for III, IV subs for VI or something like that.... Was one of those "memorise this" things which isn't how I learn, so didn't work for me.
.....
Instead I went off to derive my own little method..... Which I can't really remember the details of, but remember the outcome....
I did 2 layers of b5 substitutions looking at all the notes in the chords given. If I did too many layers I'd end up with the chromatic scale, so I pulled back 1 layer from there to have something non-chromatic to work with. Which resulted in the "altered scale"... um.... it has a bunch of names.... It's a symetrical scale....
STSTSTSTSTST etc...
So lets look at E Maj on a guitar....
F,Gb,Ab,A,B,C,D,Eb,F
S T S T S T S T
Now the easiest way to hear this is....
Play E Maj on the guitar, at open position so most of the notes are open strings.... Now slide the chord up in that classic flamenco style where you're playing F Maj with open strings ringing E...... Do the same up the neck in the altered scale, 1 fret, 2 frets, 1 fret, 2 frets......
You'll notice they all fit fine with the open strings, and how as you approach the octave they have quite a lot of tension built while still spelling basically the same sound.
You can uses these as V chords.... Think pipe organ and Amen..... Now instead of doing a straight V->I.... build it thru some of these subs.... you can hear how it all remains pretty much inside the V as secondary dominants.
That's my little way of thinging bout it.... I don't modulate as much as I should, a few little tricks like this look after me fairly well.
-Ben
Everything can be seen as II V I progressions, even if at first it doesn't appear to be, deep down everything can be made into a II V I.
Now.... a flat 5 sub.... takes the V7 chord, goes a b5 from there to....
II Dmin7
V G7
I CMaj7
II Dmin7
(V) Db7
I CMaj7
Nice chromatic run yeah? .... Well the Db7 is a "secondary dominant" substitution for the G7. Looking at the notes they are similar enough to be used.
.....
Another is "plurals" which I never really "got".... II subs for III, IV subs for VI or something like that.... Was one of those "memorise this" things which isn't how I learn, so didn't work for me.
.....
Instead I went off to derive my own little method..... Which I can't really remember the details of, but remember the outcome....
I did 2 layers of b5 substitutions looking at all the notes in the chords given. If I did too many layers I'd end up with the chromatic scale, so I pulled back 1 layer from there to have something non-chromatic to work with. Which resulted in the "altered scale"... um.... it has a bunch of names.... It's a symetrical scale....
STSTSTSTSTST etc...
So lets look at E Maj on a guitar....
F,Gb,Ab,A,B,C,D,Eb,F
S T S T S T S T
Now the easiest way to hear this is....
Play E Maj on the guitar, at open position so most of the notes are open strings.... Now slide the chord up in that classic flamenco style where you're playing F Maj with open strings ringing E...... Do the same up the neck in the altered scale, 1 fret, 2 frets, 1 fret, 2 frets......
You'll notice they all fit fine with the open strings, and how as you approach the octave they have quite a lot of tension built while still spelling basically the same sound.
You can uses these as V chords.... Think pipe organ and Amen..... Now instead of doing a straight V->I.... build it thru some of these subs.... you can hear how it all remains pretty much inside the V as secondary dominants.
That's my little way of thinging bout it.... I don't modulate as much as I should, a few little tricks like this look after me fairly well.
-Ben
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By pipe organ and amen I mean....
You know those catacomb pipe organ phantom kinda moments where the guy builds and builds through more and more out-there chords. Then it all comes together with a perfect cadence "Amen" V->I.... and soon as you hear the V->I you realise that all the stuff that came before was a big V, that did you're head in for ages just because it was taking so long to resolve to I.
-Ben
You know those catacomb pipe organ phantom kinda moments where the guy builds and builds through more and more out-there chords. Then it all comes together with a perfect cadence "Amen" V->I.... and soon as you hear the V->I you realise that all the stuff that came before was a big V, that did you're head in for ages just because it was taking so long to resolve to I.
-Ben
In the interest of accuracy...
Most of the time when you think of the "amen" cadence, it's in fact what is called a plagal cadence. A plagal cadence simply means a IV to I (or i) resolution.
A perfect cadence is however a V to I resolution with a couple of stipulations. When resolving, both chords must be in root position at the cadence point, and when the V is resolved to the I, the I chord must be in root position with the highest sounding note (usually the soprano) also ending on the tonic note.
An example would be (in 4 part harmony):
Key of C:
G D G B
resolving to:
C E G C
or if you wanted to do this with a V7 chord, it would be
G D F B
resolving to:
C E G C
An imperfect authentic cadence is still a V I (or V i) cadence, but it is changed somehow from the rules stated above. For example:
G B D G
resolving to:
C C E G
this is imperfect because the tonic is not in both the bass and the soprano.
Now, of course all these rules pretty much apply to late renaissance through romantic music.. .mostly because no one writing rap or jungle tunes these days uses four part harmony.
But...
Most of what we consider consonant and dissonant these days still derives from this older Western music.
some other common cadences are:
Half cadence:
Something resolving to V instead of I
e.g. a I V cadence
not a common cadence to end with...
Deceptive cadence:
a V resolving to a VI (or vi)
Theory makes my brain hurt.
Most of the time when you think of the "amen" cadence, it's in fact what is called a plagal cadence. A plagal cadence simply means a IV to I (or i) resolution.
A perfect cadence is however a V to I resolution with a couple of stipulations. When resolving, both chords must be in root position at the cadence point, and when the V is resolved to the I, the I chord must be in root position with the highest sounding note (usually the soprano) also ending on the tonic note.
An example would be (in 4 part harmony):
Key of C:
G D G B
resolving to:
C E G C
or if you wanted to do this with a V7 chord, it would be
G D F B
resolving to:
C E G C
An imperfect authentic cadence is still a V I (or V i) cadence, but it is changed somehow from the rules stated above. For example:
G B D G
resolving to:
C C E G
this is imperfect because the tonic is not in both the bass and the soprano.
Now, of course all these rules pretty much apply to late renaissance through romantic music.. .mostly because no one writing rap or jungle tunes these days uses four part harmony.
But...
Most of what we consider consonant and dissonant these days still derives from this older Western music.
some other common cadences are:
Half cadence:
Something resolving to V instead of I
e.g. a I V cadence
not a common cadence to end with...
Deceptive cadence:
a V resolving to a VI (or vi)
Theory makes my brain hurt.
hmm yeah it's only now that I think about the sound of an "amen" that I realise it's not a perfect cadence..... but surely they "amen" on a V->I sometimes.... it's stuck in my head, one of my teachers must have planted it there at some stage... guess it's easy to overlook seeing it's the inverse of IV->I...
-Ben
-Ben