Are you the next big producer???

mikecamp1978

New member
I'm just wondering where the future of music production is going. Maybe you can help me with this. I've been studying music since the age of 9. I've been producing since '96 (thinking i'm going to b rich and famous since '97) and I'm just starting to get the attention of the major producers in the ATL area. And as I think about it with the tremendous drop in price of pro audio equip in the past 15, 20 yrs. everyone thinks they're a producer but not only do they know nothing about music, they don't even wanna take the time to learn and understand it. They wanna sample "this" song, but have no idea why the chord progression in that song is so hot. What i'm saying is does it make since to think that the next evolution of hot producers will be ones who are truly musicians. I mean, EVERYBODY and the auntie has a "production company"...everybody has a studio (look at myspace). The industry so flooded with garbage, what would one have to do to stand out. I'll get off my soapbox now....cheers
 
I think that beatmaking as music will bottom out at some point. Each generation of producers that come out have less and less musical talent and don't really do anything new. I think someone, me, will come in and use the Hip Hop template and infuse it with something new, kinda like how three jazz musicians (Sting, Andy Summers, Stewart Copeland) formed a punk band in the late 70's (The Police). They stayed within the confines of punk for alittle bit but they brought better song writting and instrumentation to it.

It's a difficult question to answer because the industry as turned so cookie cutter that it's hard to see something new breaking through because the majority of people just up and decided to be a "producer" and bought an MPC or Triton. Alot of those people are the ones that are always praising the most simplist dumb stuff. If you take a real musician like JR Rotem, he went over to Aftermath to learn how to do rap tracks for 3 months and then he was off and running because he is a real musician and all he needed to know were the characteristics of the genre because he came from jazz.

It seems from being on this site that hardly anyone is trying to make anything new or original. Any time I post anything like: "Instead of sampling a Cool & the Gang song why don't people just write something like it or in the style, play the intruments and record it?" I always get answers like: Sampling is hip hip; If you don't like sampling you don't understand/like hip hop; the sound of hip hop is sampling to write the music you would need to get vintage instruments and record them into vintage recording equipment then press it up on vynal and then throw some dirt on it. That last one was my favorite, that last guy real doesn't want to have to compose any music!!!

I'm not trying to belittle Outkast (They are the best), but all they do is make real music to rap over. They do the same thing that any rock band does, make something that is new and interesting. It's not that difficult if you have some musical training and have listened to an ecclectic array of music, you just take things you liked and try to improve on them somehow, or just do it how you would do it. Everyone says that Outkast are geniuses but I think they're just really ambitious hip hop musicians and that's what we need more of. Same with Pharrell. It doesn't really bother me too much because I realize that I'll be ahead of the pack because I understand all that.
 
sirjaenus you summed it up perfect. i'm glad i'm sticking to my guns and daily trying to increase my abilities as a "musician". i'll keep your name in mind i'm sure we'll bump into each other at the grammy's or something
 
Hip hop is always evolving and I believe that trying to classify a sound as 'the next sound' is almost impossible at the best of times.

My own personal suspicion is that the traditional sampling model is going to start to take a backburner to fully original compositions. I'm not trying to disrespect sampling artists or start a pissing match here. Rather, I think that this move towards fully original compositions will be driven by the legal ramifications of sampling. Simply, it will eventually get too expensive to legally sample a track and producers will follow this trend.....
 
I feel you on that. sampling records is all good (I do it) and whatever but everyone and they mamas and babymamas is doing it. I feel that the real musicians will stand out more at the end of the day because ... it's music. alot of innovative artists come out and hella people be "copying" they style. but sooner or later they'll fade and all you're left with is the stevie wonders and the beatles and them kinda people. you know ... the innovators.

but in the same breath I can't really knock the sampling style because it allows people who aren't as knowledgable about music composition and all that (like me) be creative and make music that they like.
 
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Kudos to everyone "trying" to do the music thing. I applaud them all. However , the very few people out there who take the time to study and properly prepare themselvesfor their craft have all of my props.

I was talking to this "Producer" (note the quotes) And he was braggin about a beat that he madethat was hot ... So I listen to the beat and recognized the sample instantly .. I said that I was impressed ( becasue I was) Just out of curiossity , I asked him where hge got the sample from and he said that he sampled it from an old Wu album ... "Daytona 500" ... I asked him if he knewwhere the oringal sample came from and he said no ...

Everyone and the mother has done some rendition of Bob James Nautilus atleast once ( i KNow I have ,lol)

All I'm saying is that producing isgreat , but creating is better ... Learn how to play the bass ... the drums ... whatever.. Learn music theory .. Learn howto dercipher octaves , etc.. If you want to sample thats fine , but do your homework ...

Alot of the trash I hear on the radio today is just pathetic ( that's why I dsont isten to it anymore ... you can catch me listening to Cd 101.9 , J(azz station )

As much as I hate to admit it , the "Laffy Taffy" was hot ... But can you tell me in 5 years that song will get air play? probblay not ... A few snares ... some delay maybe ? Yep , real creative... Now if you take something like "Raptures Delight" or "MonaLisa" and Play it , it'll tear the roof off a party ... Thesongs are old , but they have a feel good vibe to em ...

Creativity my friends is what the game is missing ...

There is still hope for the future , but right now , it looks really bleek ...

Like Robin Leach says "Wishing Everyone Champagne Wishes , and Caviar Dreams " .. Thismusic **** will go under unless people that are genuine to the craft step up and kick these infiltrators out ...

Suave .
 
through the years.. ive learned that it really aint about standing out as much anymore.. its about gettin ya name out...

and laffy taffy? lol.. yea, it was a hit for a few days.. but that song set us back a few hundred years. personally didnt like tha song at all.

but yea.. there are a lot of stupid people. that dont wanna put any REAL work into the production. I do song writing, make beats, set up all the studio time, help mold the whole record.. i put in work. i know music theory, i sometimes use live instrumentation... but dam. it kinda pisses me off.. when people these days dont wanna put tha work in.. to perfect they craft.. or learn somethin new... or pioneer they own sound..

i mean got dam. i met this dude... (on tha westcoat)... he from tha westcoast... makes nothing but south "bounce" tracks. or club tracks. either that or "hyphy" ish. he aint from tha bay, or tha south... and he sure is reppin them spots hard.. and he is sounding just like everybody else... and because of so many people like him, there wont be that much variety on tha airwaves and all that.. 2 many copy cats.. clones. and dudes that plain out jus aint got they own style. they can make a hit.. thatll die in a couple weeks.. yea, itll be a nice club record. but i bet money they wouldnt be able 2 make a record with true substance... thatll just be real.. and be a hit at the same time. thats all they know how 2 do. go dumb.. and get crunk. throw some bass hits, and a clap. and a stupid melody
 
i just got to say the realness of the music business hits people differently.when i realized how much i liked music i started reading biographies and studyin music theory.i know if i wasnt thinking for my art i would have acted different when i got open to music. some people see how hard it is to make an ill track and say screw learnin i jus want cash out of this.
To keep it real for a second, i only sample why...cuz i cant afford to buy sounds i bought an mpc but i should have bought a korg.Anyway when we get down to whatever people that make this crunk and all that is in it for the money and the fad of it im in it cuz i like art and i try to perfect everything i like people jus have a different perspective of things
 
I am a new producer, from the south, with FL, so im the steriotype you all speak of, but I really want to become a muscian... I want to learn to play the guitar, an Piano, an I want to get a bass guitar, and standing bass...
Just today I made a track sampling myself playing the guitar... I love music... Right now im a bit disadvantaged due to mny lack of knowledge, equipment, skills, and pure understanding of music, but I hope to thru educating myself change that. I don't wanna be like half the producers around my way who wanna be the next Lil Jon, or Pharrell... I appreciate True music... Pink Floyed, A Tribe Called Quest, John Coltrane, this is some of the stuff I dig, not this garbage on the radio.
 
yo-i believe GOD sampled when HE made the earth b...in addition the scriptures i read are an abridgement, or rather samples from various prophets in ancient americas centuries before christopher columbus...sampling, is it the case that sampling is wrong or that most cats out there dont do it right?...any keyboard out there is actually a sample of sounds programmed into your joint-feel me?...most youngins or cats getting started for the first time do not understand the full artistry, form, culture, expression of sampling...taking something that exsisted once, died, and then you ressurect it-giving it life, sustenance-breath thru your own expression...samplinjg enabled many poor kids an opportunity to express. to create. especially when music happened to become over saturated with wackness, air supply, chicago, de barge...i mean these guys was cool-but they didnt represent a "new" generation of poor kids growing up with little choices. their sappy love songs were "good, but it sounded better if it sounds like"...and so the musicain gets his panties tied up in a knot, because someone improved on his idea and gave it a future. fair enough. but to early hip hop artist musicians became the enemy, jus like the subway authorities that rejected the artistic expression of the graffiti writers, who gave style and color to an otherwise dull and dead mode of transportation. and the traditional dancer took offense to the bboys acrobatic, and rythm filled expression, calling it "jungle dance" and "without form"...then there were the singers. those who said rap is short for "crap". a fad. simple minded words strung together with rhymes. of course they failed to realize how their beautiful voices did not acurately represent a disenfranchised generation of youth...in otherwords. hip hop is recreating your world around you and fitting the norms to your norms. it is rebelous to classical ideas. and it is the proverbial middle finger to established culture that has never recognized people with little choices and opportunities...as mos def once said, kids from the inner city were often thought of people with not one good idea. an et, here we are-musicains, dancers, singers, and visual artists fighting for validation against the lowest of people on earth...i do not disagree that hip hop is in need of new directions...furthermore i recommend any one coming up in the game to learn traditional "art" especially if it is used to further the expression of the common mans plight and voice...really, if we forget the spirit in which hip hop was created then we begin to forget how hip hop pushed suits to listen to them, aggressively, courageously, and creativally...think about it gentleman. we are invovled in a movement that has total control of the air waves. the ball for once is in our court. i hope we do not forget the fundamentals that made this all possible. and encourage everybody to study the foundation. how "this" was built-amidst great tribulation and skeptisicm. those that become uncreative with the fundamentals, mostly have not developed adequate skill. much like a point guard who dribbles the ball nice, but looks down at the ball whilst bringin it up the court. this player will not be successful for long. i am learning more about music, but sampling is about taking matter that exsisted and organizing it to something with new qualities once unseen or regarded as filler...1

stevie wonder, prince, beatles...true

but ithink in the shadows growing and improving will always remain the following(that i recommend yall to study)
1 rza
2 primo
3 pete rock
4 marley marl
5 large professor
6 prince paul
7 ali shaheed muhammed
8 9th
10 madlib

truth...
 
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right on. here's a question to throw out there for everyone.

would you rather be the sampler or the one being sampled?

I'm interested to see how everyone responds.
 
i wanna be sampled so my music continues to grow when im dead and still get money when im not doing this no more and my family and friends and to still be heard and apreciated when im gone. ill last forever
 
This is just another "stop sampling" forum. As far as the comment about sampling being the essence of hip hop, it is. Regardless of how you wanna take it, it is. It all started with that, and I don't care if the music evolves to full blown hip hop orchestras, you CANNOT ever take away from the fact that the classic records and breakbeats were the foundation for the sound. That's just the essence of the black man tied into music: making something out of nothing. The inner city youth didn't have the money for instruments and music schools, yet the still found a way to create a sound that they could rock to...deliver a message to, and dance too.

The fact that some producers who were more instrumentally inclined made their way into the game, enhances the music and adds to the possibilities, but that should in no way take away from those who keep the classic element of sampling. Just because a producer chooses to chop vinyl doesn't make him any less of a "musician." A musician should be defined by the music he/she creates, and that alone. If I choose to pull my car up a hill, and you choose to push yours, and another man chooses to drive his, NONE of us have the right to tell either of the others what we feel they should be doing. History has proven good and bad music can be made, sampling or not....so who's to judge the standards by which producers create?

it's all about the quality and appreciation of your art. if Picasso chose to paint with one brush and one color, who's to say his work would be any less artistic and beautiful than a Michaelangelo painting with every color of the spectrum? Again, this music started with the DJ and his records, and evolved into the sampling of these records, and eventually hip hop production introduced manual instrumentation.......and hip hop will continue to evolve. People who choose to stick to their own method, especially if it's the original method, are no better or worse than those who move on. It's like having a MPC2000, and then they release the 4000. Some people want the new 4000....but who are they to tell the 2000 owners that they need to upgrade, just because THEY feel the 4000 is the new standard?


Saying that sampling is not an art form is ridiculous. Because the same way someone can take time to get their pianos and strings right to play, another man can take the same amount of time (or more) to make sure his samples are in check. Who I don't respect, are the people who do it just to do it. THOSE are the "producers" you should be looking down on, because personally i dont respect any musicians who don't LOVE the music. THAT is why hip hop is suffering right now. We are dealing with young uneducated dudes who don't LOVE the music, they only love what it can bring them. The money, the fame, the women. So they treat it like a job. How many times have rappers (even some of your favorite artists) used the line "this is a business" ?


Jay-Z summed it up best when he said "....but my bills through the roof, can't do numbers like The Roots"


I have a keyboard player, a bass player, a DJ, and a drummer in my family, and they all love what they do beyond comparison. My uncle can play the keyboard for 10-12 hours a day. My cousin can play the bass or guitar all day long, day in and out. My other uncle used to play 4-5 hours a day on his drum set (where i learned to play......knowledge that has really shaped my drum programming). And my grandmother (rest her soul) and mother owned thousands and thousands of old records. They LOVED the music and used to both listen to records LITERALLY as many hours as possible.

And I can listen to those records all day. I can bang on the drums all day. I can chop samples and make beats all day.


All with the same undying love.



So who's to tell me that my way of production isn't "original or musical" enough?





(P.S. - I can play anything I want on the keyboard.......but i can't play for ****, if that makes sense :o )
 
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Truth , you have mad a huge point ... Much props for that ... I totally agree with you on the arguement of sampling vs. Live instruments , etc. I do both . Being an inner city latino I grew up listening to BDP , Slick Rick , Grandmaster flash etc. But I also listened to Tito Puente , Celia cruz , santana (just to name a few ) I sample their work becuase of its greatness (not becuase it sounds good) True , inner city youths back then did not have the nicetys that we have now ( fl , tritons , lol) but what they lacked in equipment they made up for in creativity ... And the music that came from them was great .. However , through time music developed and matured with the changing times ... Not saying that sampling is bad , because we have to know where we came from to know where we are going , but if you keep your self confined into a 4 * 4 box , how will we grow? Just some food for thought ...
 
yeah give a rich(or middle class) kid a piano hell be all ill give a broke kid some drums and youll be groovin that's why hip hop is hip hop i mean Funk really stands up to hip hop but funk doesnt give so much of the message as hip hop lyrics do
 
HeIsTruth said:
This is just another "stop sampling" forum. As far as the comment about sampling being the essence of hip hop, it is. Regardless of how you wanna take it, it is. It all started with that, and I don't care if the music evolves to full blown hip hop orchestras, you CANNOT ever take away from the fact that the classic records and breakbeats were the foundation for the sound. That's just the essence of the black man tied into music: making something out of nothing. The inner city youth didn't have the money for instruments and music schools, yet the still found a way to create a sound that they could rock to...deliver a message to, and dance too.

The fact that some producers who were more instrumentally inclined made their way into the game, enhances the music and adds to the possibilities, but that should in no way take away from those who keep the classic element of sampling. Just because a producer chooses to chop vinyl doesn't make him any less of a "musician." A musician should be defined by the music he/she creates, and that alone. If I choose to pull my car up a hill, and you choose to push yours, and another man chooses to drive his, NONE of us have the right to tell either of the others what we feel they should be doing. History has proven good and bad music can be made, sampling or not....so who's to judge the standards by which producers create?

it's all about the quality and appreciation of your art. if Picasso chose to paint with one brush and one color, who's to say his work would be any less artistic and beautiful than a Michaelangelo painting with every color of the spectrum? Again, this music started with the DJ and his records, and evolved into the sampling of these records, and eventually hip hop production introduced manual instrumentation.......and hip hop will continue to evolve. People who choose to stick to their own method, especially if it's the original method, are no better or worse than those who move on. It's like having a MPC2000, and then they release the 4000. Some people want the new 4000....but who are they to tell the 2000 owners that they need to upgrade, just because THEY feel the 4000 is the new standard?


Saying that sampling is not an art form is ridiculous. Because the same way someone can take time to get their pianos and strings right to play, another man can take the same amount of time (or more) to make sure his samples are in check. Who I don't respect, are the people who do it just to do it. THOSE are the "producers" you should be looking down on, because personally i dont respect any musicians who don't LOVE the music. THAT is why hip hop is suffering right now. We are dealing with young uneducated dudes who don't LOVE the music, they only love what it can bring them. The money, the fame, the women. So they treat it like a job. How many times have rappers (even some of your favorite artists) used the line "this is a business" ?


Jay-Z summed it up best when he said "....but my bills through the roof, can't do numbers like The Roots"


I have a keyboard player, a bass player, a DJ, and a drummer in my family, and they all love what they do beyond comparison. My uncle can play the keyboard for 10-12 hours a day. My cousin can play the bass or guitar all day long, day in and out. My other uncle used to play 4-5 hours a day on his drum set (where i learned to play......knowledge that has really shaped my drum programming). And my grandmother (rest her soul) and mother owned thousands and thousands of old records. They LOVED the music and used to both listen to records LITERALLY as many hours as possible.

And I can listen to those records all day. I can bang on the drums all day. I can chop samples and make beats all day.


All with the same undying love.



So who's to tell me that my way of production isn't "original or musical" enough?





(P.S. - I can play anything I want on the keyboard.......but i can't play for ****, if that makes sense :o )

I get your point but alot of people that put forth these arguements never seem to acknowledge that the old time samplers treated it like collage art and today most people just loop and put drums on.

Look at Prince Paul and De La Soul they took time and pieced their music together from 100's of little samples from here and there. Public Enemy, Erick Sermon, Marley Marl, it was different because they didn't have to get clearances so they could do whatever.

Today people can only use 1 sample (because they have to pay for it) so alot of people just loop it and put drums on it. That's not anyway near as artistic as the people who I mentioned. Some people chop things up but that's rare.

So all I ask is that people consider that before they come with the sampling rhetoric.
 
^very true this is why young producers are looked down upon cuz alot of them just loop and act like it is the best thing in the world
 
I gotta agree with the live instrumentation and sampling subject. I believe they can both be used together to create good music. One by itself works just fine if it's done right.

That's why i respect producers like Pete Rock and DJ Quik. Pete Rock startet out pretty much sampling, and still does, and has become one of the most respected producers in hip hop because he actually puts soul into his beats, and you can hear it. Quikstarted out sampling, but atthe same time he got some live instruments into the studio to work with (mostly the guitar). As time progressed, he sampled less and came up with original beats with a wider array of live instruments. If you can listen to Rhythm-al-ism and tell me thats not an art, i don't know what is.

Personally im just 15 but after Katrina i got inspired to listen to music more. I started by listening to the radio but that didnt seem to accomplish much. Then i remembered hearin one track I liked from a movie, which was performed by DJ Quik. I bought Trauma (his latest album) and got hooked instantly. After that I started getting into Pete Rock's work (thanks to NBA Street Vol. 2 or I woulda never heard T.R.O.Y. lol).

If I could, I would rather be working in the studio with live instruments because the sound is so fresh, but there would be nothing wrong with sampling, only if it's done with a passion and not just to make a quick buck. Right now i'm just getting into FL so it'll be awhile, but i'm just addicted to music now and really want to be a producer who actually makes a difference. Hearing stuff on the radio just pushes me to make music since it all sounds the same lol.
 
What was the title of this thread again?
Well allow me to answer it...

..you'all Rememba the name (Orcel) cuz he WILL become one of the next greatest producers.

goodluck to all of u..
 
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As I read this thread, I'm truly confident in acknowledging myself as a true musician and an upcoming producer. I'm not a sampler...why? Because I can't stand the fact of making music that is not of my own. All of my music is made from scratch. I have produced music for about three years now and I must say, I'm very proud of my work. I've produced music in the genres of hip hop and techno. The program I use is FL Studio, and I've been learning everything on my own. I still learn something new and I definitely love FL. Some say FL is not great or "legit" but I say that it's the "musician" that brings out the program's legitimacy. When people watch me produce, they're mostly in awe because of what I can when it comes to composing from scratch, and that says alot. While people search for samples, I'm searching for VSTs and soundfonts in order to expand my variety of different sounds, mainly ethnic. I don't know how to read notes or scales though sadly, but in the near future I want to very much. I'm very proud for what I've accomplished without that kind of knowledge. I'm young, 17, and I know I have more to learn, but I know that i am a true producer.
 
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