you #fail unless you cannot play piano?

kodiacc

kodiacc

Member
Hi everybody..

ive been watchin a lot of youtube videos recently and also played alot with my sequencer/tried to create some beats and right now i think it helpes a lot if you can play piano if not to say you fail if you can't. if i see people layering down instruments they just play some chords and they're all sounding very cool.

YT dot COM watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-jKa-wH8KbM#t=629s

look at 10:40 .. he plays some strings and they sound very good but i think he knows what he's doing there.

i studied musictheory.net and i KNOW scales and i know the basic chords like Major with 1 3 5 but i dont know more. Can you guys help me out to really learn which chords to play and HOW to really know to PLAY chords not only Know to count from 1 to 4 and then to 7 steps on the keyboard?!

im kind of frustrated right now because i dont know how to get this chords .. i only play around till something sounds nice
 
kodiacc said:
Hi everybody..

ive been watchin a lot of youtube videos recently and also played alot with my sequencer/tried to create some beats and right now i think it helpes a lot if you can play piano if not to say you fail if you can't. if i see people layering down instruments they just play some chords and they're all sounding very cool.

YT dot COM watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-jKa-wH8KbM#t=629s

look at 10:40 .. he plays some strings and they sound very good but i think he knows what he's doing there.

i studied musictheory.net and i KNOW scales and i know the basic chords like Major with 1 3 5 but i dont know more. Can you guys help me out to really learn which chords to play and HOW to really know to PLAY chords not only Know to count from 1 to 4 and then to 7 steps on the keyboard?!

im kind of frustrated right now because i dont know how to get this chords .. i only play around till something sounds nice
Click to expand...

1. Find a piano teacher

2. Take a community college course in basic music theory

In the meantime, go back to Musictheory.net and study the section on Diatonic chords through chord progressions. This is something that's gonna take quite a bit of work to really understand at a level where you can use it without thinking about it. I suggest taking your time and working through the material as slowly and thoroughly as possible. Get a notebook and work though the concepts often. Try searching Bandcoach's posts. He often drops links to some VERY helpful material on harmony.
 
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Yeah it is about playing to a degree so that the stuff you play is 2nd nature.

As for chord progressions there are so many ways that you can link chords together that it is sometimes better to find a redaction of a large number of chord progressions and implement them in each key. I have been making note of different progressions used in pop music over the last 100 years and have them categorised by major and minor key centers at the moment using Roman numeral chord notation

Band Coach ~ Common Chord Progressions: Major

Band Coach ~ Common Chord Progressions: Minor
 
kodiacc said:
im kind of frustrated right now because i dont know how to get this chords .. i only play around till something sounds nice
Click to expand...

I'd just like to point out that you shouldn't take your position for granted. If you rely more on your ears and intuition than on what is musically typical then you can create some wonderfully unique things. If you seek to further your standard musical knowledge, just please try not to lose your musical instinct.
 
So, are you saying that knowledge trumps instinct or that there is a distinct difference between amateurs and professionals that lies in what they don't know rather than what they do know??
 
Knowledge sometimes does trump instinct, but in our society I'd be more inclined to say it replaces it: Our modern society reveres knowledge and views it as the main aspect of professionalism. That's why a large amount of people choose to study their interests at University level. All I can say for sure is that upon learning the 'proper' way to treat music, I started using my brain a bit too much whilst composing and the music lost some of its soul. I got it back eventually but it would have been better if I was careful not to lose my uniqueness in the first place.
 
odinnshred said:
Knowledge sometimes does trump instinct, but in our society I'd be more inclined to say it replaces it: Our modern society reveres knowledge and views it as the main aspect of professionalism. That's why a large amount of people choose to study their interests at University level. All I can say for sure is that upon learning the 'proper' way to treat music, I started using my brain a bit too much whilst composing and the music lost some of its soul. I got it back eventually but it would have been better if I was careful not to lose my uniqueness in the first place.
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The problem lied with your perspective. I always looked at theory as simply a guide, not a dogmatic approach. There is no "proper" way to learn music. You should never have to compromise your instincts to learn theory, if anything, it broadens your instincts. Thats what i've been taught thus far.
 
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thanks for your answers..

can somebody help me how to read the chord progressions of Bandcoach? i really dont know what the slashes mean? I is C and II would be D i guess..
//add: okay thats stupid .. just watched another video on youtube about chord progressions and the roman signs mean something different. i think i've to learn this
 
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odinnshred said:
Knowledge sometimes does trump instinct, but in our society I'd be more inclined to say it replaces it: Our modern society reveres knowledge and views it as the main aspect of professionalism. That's why a large amount of people choose to study their interests at University level. All I can say for sure is that upon learning the 'proper' way to treat music, I started using my brain a bit too much whilst composing and the music lost some of its soul. I got it back eventually but it would have been better if I was careful not to lose my uniqueness in the first place.
Click to expand...

This is very common. It's important to find the right balance for yourself to make the best music. Some people can make great music without thinking at all, whilst others need to think about where to put every note. Most are somewhere inbetween. (everyone?)
 
bandcoach said:
So, are you saying that knowledge trumps instinct or that there is a distinct difference between amateurs and professionals that lies in what they don't know rather than what they do know??
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I always say that knowledge (of musical theory) adds clarity to your instinct. For example, when you are plunking out some chords and you can kind of hear what is next, but have to play around with a bunch of chords to find it. Theory knowledge helps you to know what chord you are hearing in your head and gets you there faster.

Raw talent will only get you so far. You have to develop and build it. Does a talented sprinter get to the Olympics on raw talent alone? No they have a coach to teach their bad habits out of them and develop or magnify their good ones. No successful musician in the industry has had a long career simply based on following their intuitions or their raw talent. If you listen to these people talk about music, they have basically learned theory over the years (they just don't use the right terminology). They didn't get it by instinct either. They learned from the people they worked with over years. I am a producer and I am teaching clients music theory all the time using non-traditional terms in order to not make them think that I am throwing a text book at them.

I don't understand why so many people get this attitude of "I don't need to go to school, I'll just figure it out myself". They don't realize that the reason why our society keeps advancing is because each generation is learning from the last one and then figuring out new stuff on top of that knowledge. If you don't want to spend 20 years slowly figuring out what those old guys already know, then learn what they know in 5 and spend the next 15 surpassing them.
 
I dont know how to play the piano at all but i hit keys till i hear something i like. I studied music theory read a couple books but its all gibberish to me, i just dont understand. So I said **** it and just kept my style how i make beats. Ive made sum pretty tight beats just randomly hitting keys and drawing on the piano roll. Check out my Soundclick...if that dont motivate you then i dunno what will.
 
I remember a video of Swedish House Mafia where they talked about their hit "one" - and they tell they dont play piano but i dont know, you can hit some good chords randomly but that is the thread all about – i guess it takes to long to just play and hop around till there comes out a good sound. When i watch videos of other producers on youtube and they just play some chords that sounds much better.. and i also agree that most of the good producers if not all they learned music theory and they know how to play the piano .. not like a jazz piano player or a classic piano player but they know the scales and stuff ..

on wikipedia i red about some songs and then it says "Song is in C Minor" that means that every note/key they play is in that C Minor Scale? Or what does that mean?
 
kodiacc said:
thanks for your answers..

can somebody help me how to read the chord progressions of Bandcoach? i really dont know what the slashes mean? I is C and II would be D i guess..
//add: okay thats stupid .. just watched another video on youtube about chord progressions and the roman signs mean something different. i think i've to learn this
Click to expand...

The slashes on their own simply mean play the chord again.

If you have I[sub]/3[/sub] then it is the major chord built on the first degree of the scale played with the 3rd degree of the scale as the bass note, in C it would C[sub]/E[/sub], in D it D[sub]/F#[/sub], in B[sup]b[/sup] it would B[sup]b[/sup][sub]/D[/sub].

As for the rest of Roman numeral notation:
Capitals are chords with a major 3rd in them, major or augmented (1-3-[sup]#[/sup]5)
Lower case are chords with a minor 3rd in them, minor or diminished (1-[sup]b[/sup]3-[sup]b[/sup]5)

There is much more, it is all explained in the right hand column on the two page links I posted previously.

---------- Post added at 06:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 AM ----------
kodiacc said:
on wikipedia i red about some songs and then it says "Song is in C Minor" that means that every note/key they play is in that C Minor Scale? Or what does that mean?
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It means that the basic building blocks of the song is the C minor scale, i.e. the home chord is C minor (C-E[SUP]b[/SUP]-G) and the scale used for the melody and chords is one of:
Natural minor: C-D-E[sup]b[/sup]-F-G-A[sup]b[/sup]-B[sup]b[/sup]-C: 1-2-[sup]b[/sup]3-4-5-[sup]b[/sup]6-[sup]b[/sup]7-8
Harmonic minor: C-D-E[sup]b[/sup]-F-G-A[sup]b[/sup]-B-C: 1-2-[sup]b[/sup]3-4-5-[sup]b[/sup]6-7-8
Melodic minor: C-D-E[sup]b[/sup]-F-G-A-B-C: 1-2-[sup]b[/sup]3-4-5-6-7-8

Note that we use the major scale as our starting point for identifying scale degrees (notes) and then add flats or sharps to a scale to show how it differs from the major scale.

Possible triads in C minor would be:

Roman numeralScale tones usedTriad NameNotes Used
i1-[sup]b[/sup]3-5C min C-E[sup]b[/sup]-G
ii[sup]b[/sup]52-4-[sup]b[/sup]6D dimD-F-A[sup]b[/sup]
ii2-4-6D minD-F-A
[sup]b[/sup]III[sup]b[/sup]3-5-[sup]b[/sup]7E[sup]b[/sup]E[sup]b[/sup]-G-B[sup]b[/sup]
[sup]b[/sup]III[sup]#5[/sup] [sup]b[/sup]3-5-7 E[sup]b#5[/sup]E[sup]b[/sup]-G-B
iv4-[sup]b[/sup]6-1F min F-A[sup]b[/sup]-C
IV4-6-1FF-A-C
v5-[sup]b[/sup]7-2G min G-B[sup]b[/sup]-D
V5-7-2GG-B-D
[sup]b[/sup]VI[sup]b[/sup]6-1-[sup]b[/sup]3A[sup]b[/sup]A[sup]b[/sup]-C-E[sup]b[/sup]
vi[sup]b5[/sup]6-1-[sup]b[/sup]3A dimA-C-E[sup]b[/sup]
[sup]b[/sup]VII[sup]b[/sup]7-2-4B[sup]b[/sup]B[sup]b[/sup]-D-F
vii[sup]b5[/sup]7-2-4B dimB-D-F

.....
 
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kodiacc said:
on wikipedia i red about some songs and then it says "Song is in C Minor" that means that every note/key they play is in that C Minor Scale? Or what does that mean?
Click to expand...

It usually means that this every note is in the key of C Minor. However it also often means that the song is harmonically based around C Minor (i.e, at important moments it will be very strongly situated in C Minor), whilst there is some adventure to more chromatic places (i.e, notes that typically don't belong in the key of C Minor). Keys and tonality can be ambiguous. For example, the song 'Bohemian Rhapsody' by Queen is difficult to pigeon-hole because it changes its key so often. At the big moments (i.e, "Mamaaaa, ooo-ooo-oooooooo...." and the heavy bit) the song is in E-flat major, so I would probably say that the song is in E-flat major overall. However, defining songs by their keys doesn't indicate the musical intricacies involved, it just indicates what key the song is based around.
 
I don't think you have to know how to play the piano. As long as you can read music a little and understand simple chord progression you'll be fine.
 
No,
Practice
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

aka The Five P's

although I prefer The Four P's

Practice
Promotes
Potent
Performances
 
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