you #fail unless you cannot play piano?

so, i studied the whole last days, only the piano.. its very very hard but slowly im getting some progress going on ;)
i can now play the short intro of robbie williams, feel ;) its not difficult and now i found a good video on youtube about the whole chord progressions with the roman notation.

i also studied with a DVD from Groove 3 Inc (music theory explained) or something like that and off course musictheory.net

and the chord progressions basically just are the triads you can play.. but i think it will be really difficult to really KNOW and remember all the scales/chords of each key .. .. or is there some connection/trick on how you can build ob every IV, V and stuff in each key?

just for the record, im grindin, .. not a youngin but im on my damn grind.. should studying for university though :/ but music is passion and university is just science :/
 
The most i could say is practice every day. If your not sure about how to play certain chords, there are plenty of books you can buy which describe chords such as major, minor, diminshed, augmented and the chords progressions that can go with them.

But imo, in the end it comes down to hard practice. If you know basic chords, try listening to simple songs, and play the chords back on your keyboard/piano.
 
It's not that you need to know piano, it's just that piano as an instrument is set up in a way that is very condusive to learning theory passively. It's laid out so you can see where everything is and once you get a feel for it you can get a good grasp on how the notes relate. If you really wanted to you could learn theory out of a book, never touch a piano, and get the same result.. but where's the fun in that
 
Pumpthrust said:
The problem lied with your perspective. I always looked at theory as simply a guide, not a dogmatic approach. There is no "proper" way to learn music. You should never have to compromise your instincts to learn theory, if anything, it broadens your instincts. Thats what i've been taught thus far.
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^^^Save this as the best quote on music theory ever. I've always believed as such. People tend to forget that theory is just a guide to making music. It's kinda like a grandfather who's been there and done that and can tell you what happens when you do what. Theory lays the base. It's up the artist to take it and be unique
 
KelevraOne said:
^^^Save this as the best quote on music theory ever. I've always believed as such. People tend to forget that theory is just a guide to making music. It's kinda like a grandfather who's been there and done that and can tell you what happens when you do what. Theory lays the base. It's up the artist to take it and be unique
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By "guide", I meant it as being a guide to understanding what you're hearing. You can know all the theory in the world and still have a tin ear for harmony and melody. I hear guy say, "well i'll use my ears instead", but you should already be using your ears-music theory is simply a means for understanding what it is you're hearing and express it through whatever your instrument is. You certainly don't need theory to play music or even make great music, but having an understanding of tonal harmony and such will give you the means to accurately and efficiently express the sounds you have in your head.
 
whats the EASIEST book to grasp music theory. I tried music theory for dummies and complete idiots guide to music theory but i just cant get it. I get lost when they start talking about chords and fifths and all that :(
 
futureproductions said:
whats the EASIEST book to grasp music theory. I tried music theory for dummies and complete idiots guide to music theory but i just cant get it. I get lost when they start talking about chords and fifths and all that :(
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Honestly, I don't know. I don't like the "For Dummies" books because they're almost always too wordy and teach the material in a disconnected, nonlinear form. Those books are meant as reference material for those who have experience or familiarity with the concepts already, but need some clarification on a few things.
The best resource for learning basic theory is the internet, really. I'd use books as sort of a guide for expanding on what it is you're trying to learn, but at this stage, I wouldn't solely rely on them. I'd also consider taking a few basic music lessons with a piano or guitar player who can explain to you the basic concepts of scales and intervals (since nearly EVERYTHING else you're gonna learn from that point on is reliant on those basic concepts) and how it applies to the circle of keys. It is vital to have a framework for learning this stuff, since each concept builds upon the next. I'd start with Ricci Adams' Musictheory.net and work through the lessons sequentially and SLOWLY. Part of the reason people struggle with basic concepts is because they try to take it in too fast. You have to spend some time with each concept to fully understand it before you move on. That's why you have cats who know scales, but don't know how to build them from intervals. So when they try to move on to, say, basic triad construction, they're lost. Watch this guy's videos #1 LEARN FREE MUSIC THEORY - YouTube as well. He's a great teacher and explains the concepts very well. teoría - Music Theory Web and Bandcoach.com are good references, too.
In conclusion, i'd spend a couple months working through the basics of scales, intervals, and the circle of keys using the internet. Once you've gotten those concepts down cold, only then should you consider buying a book to learn harmony further.


EDIT: If you want a good book that will get you learning basic theory as you learn the piano, try http://www.amazon.com/Alfred-Adult-...HU92/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327690424&sr=8-3 . This is what I used for my first semester of classical piano. tis easy to follow and will get you playing tunes as you learn the basics.
 
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futureproductions said:
whats the EASIEST book to grasp music theory. I tried music theory for dummies and complete idiots guide to music theory but i just cant get it. I get lost when they start talking about chords and fifths and all that :(
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I think pumpthrust hit it on the head at the end of his post - you are trying to learn theory in isolation from your keys or your guitar or whatever - don't. Composition is referred to as applied theory - if you never learn it in application mode - i.e. klisten to what is going on as you learn it, you never will understand it.

Go to teoría - Music Theory Web use their lessons and their ear training programs to get a better grip on the applied aspects of music theory.
 
theDAWstudio said:
I always say that knowledge (of musical theory) adds clarity to your instinct. For example, when you are plunking out some chords and you can kind of hear what is next, but have to play around with a bunch of chords to find it. Theory knowledge helps you to know what chord you are hearing in your head and gets you there faster.

Raw talent will only get you so far. You have to develop and build it. Does a talented sprinter get to the Olympics on raw talent alone? No they have a coach to teach their bad habits out of them and develop or magnify their good ones. No successful musician in the industry has had a long career simply based on following their intuitions or their raw talent. If you listen to these people talk about music, they have basically learned theory over the years (they just don't use the right terminology). They didn't get it by instinct either. They learned from the people they worked with over years. I am a producer and I am teaching clients music theory all the time using non-traditional terms in order to not make them think that I am throwing a text book at them.

I don't understand why so many people get this attitude of "I don't need to go to school, I'll just figure it out myself". They don't realize that the reason why our society keeps advancing is because each generation is learning from the last one and then figuring out new stuff on top of that knowledge. If you don't want to spend 20 years slowly figuring out what those old guys already know, then learn what they know in 5 and spend the next 15 surpassing them.
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No thanks. There are bazillions of producers who didn't spend $20k to get to where they are today. Knowledge will forsure lead the way and help you 'learn' what you need to know and how to properly use the various tools in music production, but logically it doesn't make sense. Think about it, after 5 years you walk out of your school with a degree in ___________ music or w.e. Now you need to apply your knowledge and hope that everything pops into place and you end up with a career in the music industry making enough money to get by or live comfortably. In my opinion, bad idea. What if it doesn't work out? You're stuck working at some dead end job making $13.50/hr. big whoop. I just think there are WAY smarter ways to approach the music industry. Some can argue that school is the way to go but for them, everything probably worked out in their favour and they either ended up where they wanted to be, or they got a position somewhere doing something in relation to music.
 
it's like taking a degree in medieval history, philosophy or theatre but with more of a modern application. I've read there are better ways to approach the music industry where you can put your money to better use.. spend the 20k on equipment/ quick 2-3 week music theory classes/ some piano or w/e instrument classes/ read some books. You can also try and involve yourself with someone who owns their own professional recording studio who you can pay hourly to show you the ropes and who you can watch first hand and ask questions along the way. Or apply yourself towards a degree where the job market is stable but only take 2-3 classes a semester, giving yourself a lot of time over a couple of years to perfect your music. Just because so and so went to school and became a big shot does't mean that everyone will. it's like they all say 'it's not what you know but who you know'
 
And you know this first hand or are you repeating what someone else (who you respect) has already said?

If it is the third option, instinct, then yours is way off.

Drive is the key factor to success in any field of endeavour; if you don't want it, no matter how good you are, you won't get it!

Everything else is window dressing to convince folks that you got it.

I've been in the field for more than 30 years: I play over 10 different instruments well enough to do live work on them, including working with orchestras, I have all the gear and then some (PA gear, Stage gear, Studio gear, Software, etc) yet I am content teaching - far less stress than gigging and touring, as you can always go home to your own bed at the end of the day.

If you are not prepared to invest in yourself then no matter what you do you are dooming yourself to failure. Investing in yourself means believing enough to spend time and/or money on improving yourself.
 
SwagProductionz said:
YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE PIANO YOU CAN LOOK AT LEX LUGER AND T-MINUS (DRAKES PRODUCER) ... THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ MUSIC AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF IT DEPENDS ON YOUR EAR... MY TRACKS BANG AND I DEF DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY CHORDS OR NONE OF THAT SHYT.. YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE AN EAR FOR SHIT.. CHECK ME OUT Music page of SwagProductionZ - MP3 music page on SoundClick
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yeah but you are very restricted .. you have to try very long until you get something what sounds good. i also made good melodies for 2 years without knowing any of this stuff.. but if you take "she will" from drake, this chord progression is very good and i really doubt that t-minus dont know anything when it comes to common chord progressions.. if they dont know in theory, they really know which keys to press.. they just not messin randomly around on their keyboards..
and also lex luger.. on this trap beats you have this minor chord progressions .. i know you can make some bangers.. but you get to a point where i am right now and you will see if you want to make variable and good music you have to know what you do.. i dont wanna say there are some multi talented guys out there who figure out some nice shiat without the knowledge of music theory
 
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kodiacc said:
yeah but you are very restricted .. You have to try very long until you get something what sounds good. I also made good melodies for 2 years without knowing any of this stuff.. But if you take "she will" from drake, this chord progression is very good and i really doubt that t-minus dont know anything when it comes to common chord progressions.. If they dont know in theory, they really know which keys to press.. They just not messin randomly around on their keyboards..
And also lex luger.. On this trap beats you have this minor chord progressions .. I know you can make some bangers.. But you get to a point where i am right now and you will see if you want to make variable and good music you have to know what you do.. I dont wanna say there are some multi talented guys out there who figure out some nice shiat without the knowledge of music theory
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yea you right.. But it still remains you 'can' make it without knowing the piano and i'm saying the more beats you make... It'll come to you eventually like little things you'll pick up you know... And it'lll build
 
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