When do you add drums in to a new production?

[Yumid]

Its all subjective, but when do you add drums in (not counting kick) to your new production? Im finding that I heavily lean towards filling up the spectrum with synth and bass hits first, then when it comes time to add drums in. There isn't a lot of room left for anything else.

Keep in mind I'm talking about layered dance tracks here so the drums generally aren't that complicated, I just don't have a ton of room for them once I get the sound I want. Maybe I should drop a couple of my lower layers. I guess there isn't really a specific question asking WHAT I should do, I have an idea. I just wanted to start a discussion about it to maybe get some other ideas. Ive never really liked building a melody or progression over drums its always been the other way around. When I start drums without a melody or progression the melody never seems to fit or match the drums..whereas if the melody and progression are already playing its easier to imagine the drums I think.

 

[Wallengard]

Personally I start with whatever comes to me first. If it happens to be a drum pattern, so be it, if it happens to be a modulated atmospheric pad sound, so be it, then I naturally build the rest around it.

I'll add drums to my production whenever I feel that there should be one, and I'm sure it's common sense really.

Not sure what you were trying to say about layered dance tracks drums not being complicated though..

 

[scrapheaper]

I don't think it matters at all.

Any order is good, change it about a bit.

 

[Cayden Carrell]

Is there more to drums that kick? I add it 1st as the metronome. Toss in some percussion late.

 

[Ddream]

I'm talking about layered dance tracks here so the drums generally aren't that complicated

Oh my. Even minimal techno or minimal house drums are complex do make.

I normally start my projects by choosing the samples I want for kick, snare and cymbals, and then create the most common pattern related to that genre (for example, the amen break for drum and bass). Then, I leave it there and start working on the rest of the elements of the song (pads, bass, FX, etc). Then I go back to the drum pattern, and try to make it go well with the rest of the elements. And then I work on the percussion pattern, normally using non usual percussion instruments. The track I'm working on right now has these percussion loops I made with tabla (an Indian hand drum).

 

[Yumid]

Not sure what you were trying to say about layered dance tracks drums not being complicated though..

I meant the basic beat you start with, like DDream mentions below

I don't think it matters at all.

Any order is good, change it about a bit.

I know...thats the point of this thread, to see other ways.

Is there more to drums that kick? I add it 1st as the metronome. Toss in some percussion late.

Oh my. Even minimal techno or minimal house drums are complex do make.

I normally start my projects by choosing the samples I want for kick, snare and cymbals, and then create the most common pattern related to that genre (for example, the amen break for drum and bass). Then, I leave it there and start working on the rest of the elements of the song (pads, bass, FX, etc). Then I go back to the drum pattern, and try to make it go well with the rest of the elements. And then I work on the percussion pattern, normally using non usual percussion instruments. The track I'm working on right now has these percussion loops I made with tabla (an Indian hand drum).

All i meant was the basic 4 floor beat to begin with not the changed finished drums.


and whoever mentioned something about the kick being added in at the beginning, thats what I do to..which is why I excluded the kick in the question in the OP. (at least i think I did, cant see the post right now)

 

[steffeeh]

If you have issues with laying down too many synthtrack before the drums, then try to get a better picture in your head of your end result of a certain loop (the main idea of the track) before making it, and try to force yourself into shifting between adding a synthlayer and adding a drumlayer, rather than focusing on just the synths or drums.
I bet this is easier in theory than practically to try shifting between adding synth and drum layers, but at least I would give it a go and see if it gets better.

Also, try experiment how you can mix it all better. Make a drumbus and a synthbus and tweak the EQ so you get good tone differencies.
And make sure you get good transients that pop through the sustained sounds of the synths.
And maybe even experiment with sidechained compression that only ducks a certain part of the spectrum of a sound (sidechain a drumsound to a synth and let the drum trigger the synth to duck in just the necessary part of the spectrum), this way you hopefully can make the drums cut through better without any annoying pumping sound.