when to apply shuffle

R

robotnik23

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hey everyone,

I'm writing house using Cubase SL and Reason. I have been experimenting with using shuffle/swing quantizing but I'm not achieving the sound I'm looking for.

I understand the basic theory behind shuffle, that it delays certain 16th notes.

Do you generally just apply this to tracks with high hats and other similar sounds? I ask this because I'm noticing that things like toms sound awful when swing quantized.

any thoughts/tips about this would be great.

thanks,

-- James
 
high hats and shakers can usually be swing/shuffled safely. Occasionally toms and snares. Never a kick. When you're programming your shakers or hihats, play with the velocity if your groove quantize doesn't do it for you. that's whats nice about MOTU Digital Performer. It probably has the best groove quantize out of any sequencer.
 
Never a kick?? Wha?? Maybe I don't know House music well enough, but in Hip Hop you definitely swing the kicks.

Swing/Shuffle adjust every other 16th note a certain amount. Therefore, the first 16th note will sound the same regardless of how much swing you put on it - it will sound the same as having no swing at all...

...but every 2nd 16th note is the note that Swing affects. This is very important to understand about it!!

Example: Let's say you have hi hats on 8th notes, and kick & snare on 1 & 3 - super simple. With this pattern, you would NEVER hear a difference with swing, no matter how much you applied because no notes fall on the 2nd 16ths' (hope that makes sense).

But, if you have a pattern that looks like this...

swing_ani.gif


This is one of those patterns in Hip Hop where the kick drum hits twice, with the 2nd Kick being the main kick on the one....bump,BUMP

Anyway, in this pattern since you have things sitting on every 2nd 16th note, the swing will make a huge difference in the "feel". Specifically, the swing will affect every other hi hat, and it will affect the 2nd Kick drum (not the first kick, cuz it's sitting on the set of 16th notes that swing doesn't affect)

Hope that helped a little. I have heard songs that mix different swing quantization settings (Dr. Dre's "Dr. Dre" from Car Wash sndtrck) - but most don't, because mixing them can sound weird. Usually the "swing" of a song affects ALL the instruments playing - guitars, horns, everything.
 
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So how can u swing only certain tracks? Or do you just quantize certain tracks?
 
Fumbling on Ecstasy said:
high hats and shakers can usually be swing/shuffled safely. Occasionally toms and snares. Never a kick. When you're programming your shakers or hihats, play with the velocity if your groove quantize doesn't do it for you. that's whats nice about MOTU Digital Performer. It probably has the best groove quantize out of any sequencer.
Click to expand...


:victory:
 
JiggSaw said:
So how can u swing only certain tracks? Or do you just quantize certain tracks?
Click to expand...
If you're using the ReDrum and turn shuffle on, it'll apply to every instrument in that pattern, yeah.

So you could use Matrices to drive different elements and only apply shuffle to those you want it on.

Lately, though, I'm liking the results of dumping all pattern data to the sequencer and using Reason's 'User' groove facility to apply MPC grooves to my tracks to give them motion.
 
im just curious, do you ever swing a kick?

and what do you mean with that you cant use different swing settings for different tracks, cant i have one swing setting for the hihat for example, and another one for my kick, will that mess upp the whole groove of my track?
 
jizzer said:
Never a kick?? Wha?? Maybe I don't know House music well enough, but in Hip Hop you definitely swing the kicks.
Click to expand...

This is true. I personally don't really use quantization (or shuffle/swing) much, if at all, though. But a lot of people, especially in Hip Hop shuffle their kicks. I've even heard live drummers play offsets in the same manner, on the single or double kick - to get the same effect.
 
i only ever apply 'shuffle' manually, note by note, where it is needed. im pretty much set against the 'shuffle' button. its just weird to me to think that the whole bar needs this pre-calculated shuffle applied. i use it sparingly and precisely.....



peace.
 
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