What does it take to be a great composer?

I

Isaac Rife

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What do you think it takes to be a great composer or to make a great composition?

What does it take to a good musician in your own eyes?

I got into a heated debate on youtube with a guy who claims that if you are not famous or don't have a big follow base then you can't be a good musician.... He then basically said that if things that are not 4/4 (commercial) are much better than things that are complex and intricate....

I just need to know if people think that claim is Absurd.

I would post this into getting started but Im really not new to music. lol


I personally think that it is just crazy... apparently Im bad because I don't take music so serious? I wouldn't say im a bad musician, I can play 9 instruments from orchestral to the analog synthesizer but im intelligent to know that its better to have a degree and a steady job lol.

I also found it hilarious because most artists that have a huge fanbase are label property and have little say in the actual composition of his or her music...

this whole debate was hilarious/frustrating! I just want to see what others think!
 
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You won't get any argument here - my list of instruments is around the site in a few different places and makes people wonder where I found the time to learn let alone sleep and eat and procreate etc....

gotta remember, as has been said in another part of fp very recently, there is a difference between someone who is looking to make some quick money to buy their latest toy and those who need to make money to pay the real bills....

He is young and won't change until he is forced to when life gets a hold of his balzac and givers it a real good tug......
 
I really wasn't trying to start an arguement, I just thought i would share with the community about this guys view on music...

UPDATE:
You can apparently have talent and not be famous? thats that this guy on youtube just said (hypocrisy)!!!!
 
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Good music is music that makes you respond emotionally (whether that's sadness, happiness, excitement or chill out)...doesn't matter if it is intricate or simple. There is some amazingly intricate music out there which makes me feel nothing and simple music which touches me deeply and vica versa. That's my opinion.
 
I do agree with your point! This guy is leaning towards that but is extremely radical about it. I too can find satisfaction in really simple compositions, but i find alot of music today predictable, that isn't necessarily a bad thing but idk i enjoy modulation in a song structure, It really can take the listener by surprise! Thanks for your Opinion!

ANOTHER UPDATE:
He is a self Proclaimed Julliard Student...
 
Being completely realistic, to become a "great composer" requires recognition. That's because the only time that term is used objectively is when its used by an industry. For example, Mozart is almost invariably called a "great composer" by the industry because his work is standard repertoire and it has been long-lasting, although peoples' personal opinions of his work would be more 3D than simply "great". Personally, I find his work boring and predictable, but it'd be difficult not to call the guy a "great composer".

The point I'm trying to make is that what one person might see as good music, or a good way to make music, others may dismiss and find uninspired or unpleasant. You've got to think about what you like in music, what you like to do when composing music, and what effect you'd like your music to create. The way I figure it is that we should really make music for ourselves and make it public, because if you like your music then there's bound to be a lot of other people in this huge world who'd like it too. We're only human with human tastes, after all.

I think the only thing you can do to be a "great composer" or a "good musician" is expand your knowledge and abilities, and utilise them as best you can when making music the way you want to.

To sum up, a piece of music in standard 4/4 may or may not be better than a different piece of music. They will definitely be different, and definitely differently received. That's all really.
 
MrWonderful said:
^ It's only predictable because it's all through out music LOL.
Click to expand...

I meant in ways of use of harmony, orchestration, melodic clichés etc. If someone plays you the first part of a Mozart phrase and asks you to hum a conclusion, it'll usually be pretty close to what Mozart wrote.
 
I think the famous or recognized part clouds the question. There are a lot of great composers (and artist in general) who go un-recognized by the general public, although people in their field know how good they are. Monk was not recognized as a genius at first (that's why his first records were on riverside before columbia), and the whole host of people who don't know how critical Billy Strayhorn was in the development of Duke Ellington's sound. My point is that i don't think u can equate fame and great composition. That's just not our society. I say do u and make the best music u can and your music will be recognized (it may not make u rich), but maybe after this dance of life is over people will acknowledge you musical genius. my 2 cents
 
I like the responses!

Music culture IMO governs the concept of "talent". Western Culture is normally predictable, Throw in a proper modal chord progression and a 4/4 time sig and you can make a hit! In many cultures of music the concept of a mode or time signature is a complete blank! That is something to take into consideration, the world was not raised on music theory, out culture however was! I am a Student at OSU and my Music Cultures Professor gets on me all the time because I often relate everything to theory which is a HUGE No No!
I don't believe an intricate composition is necessarily better but I believe complex song structure is revered amongst Seasoned producers and Musicians alike. It shows how long and deep one has dabbled into the discipline of music Comp. itself!
 
I'd have to say that I don't agree with that opinion at all. You don't need to be famous to be a good musician. Being famous requires luck and good networking. There are certain famous musicians that aren't even that good, but because they managed to get an awesome manager and someone good to touch-up their stuff...they are famous now.
 
A great composer is not necessarily a recognised composer - this is evidenced by the number of people who do not know who Harry Partch was or Pierre Schaeffer or Bruno Nettl.

All of these were Great Composers but are not recognised outside of a small informed elite - not industry elite but musical elite.

On Musical Cultures not being based within a strict theoretical framework - why else would the Chinese have a Royal Office of Music if not to impose the rules and regs of royal music and therefore cultural music. Chinese traditional music is not governed in the same way, nut certain expectations and rules do exist in the creation of new material in the folk idioms.

The concept of 4/4 may not exist within a given culture, but they certainly do count notes and therefore, to an extent, beats. Javanese and Balinese Gamelan (as well as Malayan and Filipino Gamelan/gong orchestras) all rely on exceedingly long beat cycles for their underlying gong framework and these beat cycles are broken into even smaller cycles for melodic material and even smaller for the decoration of the melodic material.

I could go on but I think that I am preaching to the choir here......
 
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Many of the most influential composers of all time were completely unknown and BROKE when they were alive. Some were even somewhat well known but broke when they were alive like John Cage. If you want to be great at anything you just have to practice an extensive amount and know a lot about your craft. Music, composition, production, etc. is no different. Listen to lots of music and keep writing lots of music!
 
Except of course that Cage came from money and so not being able to make his own way did not hurt as much. Of course later he succeeded in becoming better paid by working as a professor, but that took a long time to come about. Then of course he had his book sales as well.....
 
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