Trying to get my Head Around ''Double Time''

JC Biffro

New member
I'm coming across more and more sample packs (with supplementary MIDI files) using tempos 130 and beyond. Now I know the concept behind 'double-time', i.e. 130 can in fact be 65, but what exactly is the point behind it?

If I'm making a beat and send it off to an engineer to professionally mix it, what would they be expecting? a 70BPM song or a 140BPM song (recorded at 140, but intended as 70). All I've really seen on this subject is that it makes things like hi-hat rolls easier to make. Surely that can't be the sole reason for it? I would have thought It'd have been less agro to record at say 70 as you need less bars in the playlist.

Tar.
 
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BPM is entirely a recording / composition convention. A way of describing tempo. It's actually pretty subjective. 140 and 70 BPM can be indistinguishable, it depends on how you structure phrases. As far as engineers are concerned, I would have thought the BPM of a track is irrelevant, as is the equivalence of 140 and 70 BPM. They might use the BPM to decide on compressor timings... maybe? Doubt it though.

140 BPM means 140 beats per minute, a beat is usually cut into 4 parts, a bar is usually made of 4 beats and phrases usually repeat after 1,2,4 or 8 bars. Tracks are usually arranged roughly into 8-bar chunks, or 4 for pop / radio music.

A track at 140 BPM will stay in sync with a track at 70 BPM. That said, the same is true of tracks at 120 and 30, or 96 and 32. Assuming the tracks beats are split into the same measures.

Anyway, long story short it doesn't matter that much. It matters for people who want to talk with other people about composing / recording / arranging; for example a composer talking to an orchestra while recording.


For you personally, try different tempos time settings. Experiment.
 
I'm coming across more and more sample packs (with supplementary MIDI files) using tempos 130 and beyond. Now I know the concept behind 'double-time', i.e. 130 can in fact be 65, but what exactly is the point behind it?

If I'm making a beat and send it off to an engineer to professionally mix it, what would they be expecting? a 70BPM song or a 140BPM song (recorded at 140, but intended as 70). All I've really seen on this subject is that it makes things like hi-hat rolls easier to make. Surely that can't be the sole reason for it? I would have thought It'd have been less agro to record at say 70 as you need less bars in the playlist.

Tar.

Double time as a convention stems from march music. Early on marches were written in 2/4 and tempos were in the high 100's to low 200's. Someone then had the bright idea, that particularly when asking musicians to read a march at sight, that it might make better sense to rewrite the march in 2/2 and halve the tempos, making them in the range 80-120bpm instead of teh previous 160-240bpm. This approach was also adopted by jazz bands, particularly the big band era and later in the war-time and post-war be-bop ensembles that sprang up.

We have Maelzel to thank for the concept of Beats Per Minute and Beethoven for their widespread adoption. BPM or MM (Maelzel's Metronome) is about tempo (Italian/Latin for time or speed) and cannot be so blithely summarised as marcdhall has done.

A bar can be any number of beats and the beat can be any note value. In traditional dance music terms we are concerned with 4/4 that is four quarter notes (or four crotchets) per bar. these beats are divided into two equal parts (8ths/quavers) and are further sub-divided into two equal parts repeatedly.

In hip-hop, however, we can also take the approach that we are dealing with 6/8 or 12/8 and that the dotted quarter (or dotted crotchet) is the beat value. This is then divided into three equal parts. These parts are then sub-divided into two parts and so on, unless we apply triplet division again.

As far as bpm is concerned in recording and mixing and mastering, the issues are about delay times (if you are trying to sync or slightly desync them), lfo rates and attack and release times for dynamics processors, although in my book, I usually use short attack and long release times as these tend to interfere less with the musicality of the piece

some bpm related calculators can be found here
 
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12/8... so hard to count rests.
Anyways, 6/8 and 12/8; the 8th note (quaver) is actually the beat. the first/top number is the number of beats in a bar and the second, bottom note is the value of the note that gets the beat. If it was a 4, the quarter note (crotchet) gets the beat. In 4/64 time the 64th note (hemidemisemiquaver) is the beat.

As for the orriginal question, it all depends on meter. Meter is "A repeated pattern of emphasis". In 4/4 time, the meter is strong weak medium weak. The first note is strong (louder), the second, weak, the next is medium (quieter), the next-medium. This then repeates. At 60 BPM, there is a strong note every 4 seconds but at 120 BPM (Moderato, standard march tempo) there's one every 2. This can often go unnoticed but in live orchestral music, it's usually quite obvious.
 
12/8... so hard to count rests.
Anyways, 6/8 and 12/8; the 8th note (quaver) is actually the beat.

actually, no, 6/8 is known as compound duple (meaning 2 beats in the bar with the beat divided in to 3 pulses) and 12/8 is known as compound quadruple (meaning 4 beats in the bar with the beat divided in to 3 pulses). When we see a time signature with multiples of 3 on top, we have what is known as a compound meter. There are few if any exceptions to this.

the first/top number is the number of beats in a bar and the second, bottom note is the value of the note that gets the beat. If it was a 4, the quarter note (crotchet) gets the beat. In 4/64 time the 64th note (hemidemisemiquaver) is the beat.

This is only true for simple time signatures such as 2/4, 3/4 and 4/4 or any number you want to put beneath such as 8, 16, 32, 64 and so on; where the beat is divided into two equal parts.

When the number on top is a multiple of three, then we have compound meter, which means the beat divides into three equal parts before being further sub-divided into 2 equal parts. Examples of compound meter are 6/8, 9/16, 12/4 and so on.
 
One could argue that, although it is in compound time, the 8, 16, or whatever is on the bottom is still the beat, you just don't count all of them for simplicity's sake. There would be no difference in meter, and therefore would sound the same either way. For example the meter in 12/8 is strongest, weak, weak, medium, weak, weak, strong, weak, weak, medium, weak, weak. If you counted it in four so you don't have to try to say eleven in one beat, the last to parts of each triplet would be weak, and the overall meter would be the same.
 
such argument would be out of step with more than 300 years of teaching and thought on the subject.

the beat is the triple value of the lower note in all compound meters with a pulse of 3 within each beat.

this is the point of compound versus simple you can emulate it using triplets, but when it comes to reading sextuplets and dodecatuplets, we are still a little leary, and prefer to read instead 6 16ths or 12 32nds breaking up the dotted crotchet/quarter note beat.

odd thing to be getting picky about, by the way, as there is so much out there that fails to support your position........
 
I use double time went I wna make a more upbeat track were the click is,a bit faster. It's a way to play a trick on my brain lol.
 
I ended up spending quite a bit of time last night re-adjusting a beat I made in 64 BPM to fit with 128 BPM. It took me a few attempts to get my timing right (and was getting highly frustrated at the same time) but I got there in the end.

I must admit, it's definitely feels easier to compose a relatively slow melody but with faster drums using a 'double time' BPM. I'm glad I tried this out now. :)
 
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