Tips for determining which key your instrument sample is in?

[Subtle-t]

When I make songs that have samples in them and the samples are instruments (in a certain key), I need to know which key to create my bassline to accompany the sample and sometimes I have trouble finding which key the sampled instrument is being played in. Does anyone have any methods or tips to do this? Right now, the only way I do this is to let the sample play as I press each of the different keys in one octave and listen for harmonization. At times I cannot find harmony with any key.

 

[vaboi]

do you mean unison? (like youre playin a key until it sounds just like the same note in the sample) If thats what you mean, thats the same thing I do... so damn, I thought I had a good suggestion ready when I read the topic

 

[Subtle-t]

Yeah I meant in unison (same "key" would be the music theory terminology).

 

[Bezo]

Unison can mean a few things. For example, 2 instruments can play in unison. What you're looking for is the key of the sample, or the chords played in the sample.

My suggestion is to first try to determine how many chords are in your sample. Then try to hear if they are minor, major or dominant. Then play arpeggios against the sample to see what fits. The better your ear, the less you'll have to test.

Unless you're sampling a very large portion of the song, it may be difficult to determine what key the sample is in since one or two chords can belong to a number of keys. But, as long as you figure out which chords are being played, you'll have some guidance for your bassline and anything else you want to add.

 

[Subtle-t]

Thanks for the info Bezo...when I get frustrated at times trying to determine keys it makes me want to compose all of my beats instead of making sample-based beats. Either that or just using one-hit samples where key doesn't really matter much.

 

[RAnthony]

Thanks for the info Bezo...when I get frustrated at times trying to determine keys it makes me want to compose all of my beats instead of making sample-based beats. Either that or just using one-hit samples where key doesn't really matter much.

lol ya thats how I am. I'm still trying to learn how to sample... as for now im all about composing my own stuff.

 

[btownpro]

I usually add a real simple bassline that goes with the chord progression, cause I am usually EQing out the low end in a sample. Just need to find the root note of each chord, I use the same method vaboi, trial and error.
As long as my bassline is solid, I will go back and add more if necessary.

 

[orjanbeats]

If it's difficult to play a bassline, why not just use lo end theory ?

 

[Delphine]

Thanks for the info Bezo...when I get frustrated at times trying to determine keys it makes me want to compose all of my beats instead of making sample-based beats. Either that or just using one-hit samples where key doesn't really matter much.

Why is it so important for you to try to establish the key anyways? Surely your ears will tell you if something isn't working against the sample while you are playing along with it.

 

[Bezo]

Why is it so important for you to try to establish the key anyways? Surely your ears will tell you if something isn't working against the sample while you are playing along with it.

Because knowing the key or chords gives you a head start when adding parts. If you have some music theory under your belt, once you figure out the key/chords, you have a good idea what will work, as oppose to using trial and error with every instrument you want to add.

If I worked with samples, and the sample had an Amaj-Dmaj progression for example, before I play a single note, I know which scales, chromatic tones and chords I'll want to use. At that point, it's just a matter of what feel & sound I want. Much quicker than the trial & error method.

 

[MrHope]

I determine the key of my samples the same way you do. The reason why some samples don't fit in any key is because sometimes they are tuned between notes.

The way around this is to get to the closest note match. Then adjust the tuning of the tuned keyboard you are playing to match the sample. Make a note of how much you adjusted the tune of the tuned keyboard. Now set the keyboard tuning back to normal. Apply pitch correction to the sample with the same amount as you noted before, but in the opposite direction. This will put the sample in tune.

 

[Delphine]

Because knowing the key or chords gives you a head start when adding parts. If you have some music theory under your belt, once you figure out the key/chords, you have a good idea what will work, as oppose to using trial and error with every instrument you want to add.

If I worked with samples, and the sample had an Amaj-Dmaj progression for example, before I play a single note, I know which scales, chromatic tones and chords I'll want to use. At that point, it's just a matter of what feel & sound I want. Much quicker than the trial & error method.

Yes but for those who may lack theory knowledge, rather than them struggling to determine a 'key' ( if you can actually say a sample 'belongs' to any particular key ) simply playing along with the sample seems far less complicated than the way you suggested.

For those with little theory, they may assume that a two chord sample of that progression is in say A Major when it could work with a number of things, deciding from the outset that it must belong to one single thing key seems odd but I'm assuming someone might do this because of their lack of understanding rather than trust their ears.

I see where you are coming from though and I'm pretty much the same, it's only co's I know a fair bit of theory that I can see where sounds/samples could immediately be useful. I think we all trust our ears at first though and you have to start somwhere right?

 

[rayzer]

if i need to find & retune the key of a sample i chopped, i get another similar one tuned to C and overlap em in the step sequencer. then in the chopped sample just adjust the chanel pitch until it sounds like one of the samples has disappeared. it should be on C, then just export it. reset the channel pitch and reload the exported sample

 

[Bezo]

Yes but for those who may lack theory knowledge, rather than them struggling to determine a 'key' ( if you can actually say a sample 'belongs' to any particular key ) simply playing along with the sample seems far less complicated than the way you suggested.

Right, but the original poster asked how to find the key of the sample. He then also mentioned that the frustration of finding keys makes him want to compose without samples. I get the impression he knows at least some theory, he's just having trouble determining the key of the sample.

Sounds to me that his theory is ahead of his ears at this point. The info I provided should help develop his ears by showing him what to listen for. He has to use his ears with every suggestion I gave. He's just applying theory knowledge to what he's listening for.

For those with little theory, they may assume that a two chord sample of that progression is in say A Major when it could work with a number of things, deciding from the outset that it must belong to one single thing key seems odd but I'm assuming someone might do this because of their lack of understanding rather than trust their ears.

That's why I suggested finding the chords and explained that those chords could belong to several keys.

Unless you have very good ears and can translate that to an instrument, "trusting your ears" usually means trial and error. In this case, knowing the theory saves time and can provide sounds one might not find by trial and error.

I see where you are coming from though and I'm pretty much the same, it's only co's I know a fair bit of theory that I can see where sounds/samples could immediately be useful. I think we all trust our ears at first though and you have to start somwhere right?

Knowing theory and trusting my ears goes hand in hand, for me at least. But yes, you have to start somewhere. But it seems the original poster has already started... working with theory and trying to apply it. It seems you're suggesting he abandon the theory he's trying to use for a trial and error method.

I'm all for using ones ears, but it's a lot more productive when you have some guidance and you're not just pressing keys until you find something.