Stealing melodies...
- Thread starter Soladee
- Start date
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DannyGantastic
Guest
Very often, it is known who authored folk songs. You mentioned Hava Nagilah -- Here's the first website I got when I punched it into Google: http://www.radiohazak.com/Havahist.html
Bam, author credits.
However, I see no problem with doing covers of previously composed/recorded music. Nobody living would have ever heard most music written before 1900 otherwise. A lot of musical hits have been covers of previous work -- From The Byrds singing Bob Dylan's "Mister Tambourine Man" to Alien Ant Farm performing Michael Jackson's "Smooth Criminal."
Similarly, I don't see a problem with sampling & transforming music -- Preferably with at least a small mention in the liner notes or such. It does bother me, however, when some pieces are mindless ripoffs of others. There was some Sean Paul tune which used, note-for-note, synth-for-synth, the beat to Dre's "What's The Difference". Even if it was done with permission (Which it surely was), it strikes me more as a lack of creativity passing as good music than anything else.
"Nobody living would have ever heard most music written before 1900 otherwise."
You'd be surprised. Much of classical music goes way back further then 1900.
Korobeiniki (Tetris) is a 300 year old Folk tune that has managed to survive and is very popular.
Kradoutja is another example.
Thats the thing about folk, the melodies cling on to the back of everyone's head.
ok, so some folk songs in which I listed do have composers - Mostly all dead.
You'd be surprised. Much of classical music goes way back further then 1900.
Korobeiniki (Tetris) is a 300 year old Folk tune that has managed to survive and is very popular.
Kradoutja is another example.
Thats the thing about folk, the melodies cling on to the back of everyone's head.
ok, so some folk songs in which I listed do have composers - Mostly all dead.
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mistaox
Guest
If ur Gonna Use a MIDI file Dont try to pass it off as ur own creation...I think its fine if you alter a melody a bit and put ur own flavor to it..but dont go arround saying its ur beat..Be honest..let people know: "This is my rendition of this particular song"
Alot of people say that sampling is a way of paying respect to those who came before us..but if you never give them credit, where is the respect in that???
Alot of people say that sampling is a way of paying respect to those who came before us..but if you never give them credit, where is the respect in that???
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Ajari
...so I see...
mistaox said:
Cound't have said it better myself! When I re-mixed a Castlevania II song for the Future Producers videogame music competition, I put "Konami" next to my name on the credits, because I can't take full credit for that song. It was the only right thing to do.
-Ajari-
P.S. mistaox! Where you been hiding out man!? Weren't we spossed to have a battle like a week ago??
D
DannyGantastic
Guest
Shenlong said:
Yes, but it wouldn't be popular if people weren't still playing it! Precisely the point -- Music has traditionally been passed down by people replaying pieces composed by others. Now, in the age of recording, music is passed down through people remixing, covering, or sampling pieces *recorded* by others.
listen to half of the US hip hop/ rap scene.. they're using stolen riffs and melodies from techno. take lil'jon for example.. every one of this melodies is in techno.. they are reusing the same tired sounds just arranging them different sometimes. i have good ears.. i know these melodies.. DAMN THEIVES!
Soladee said:
Yes, it is "stealing" (or, more appropriately defined: "copyright infringement")
You purposely took actual existing songs and used their melodies... and you took actual midi files of their actual melodies - - you weren't even just "inspired" by the songs.
PLUS, you said you can still "tell both are there"! (not that it even matters)
There is no clearer case of copyright infringement than this.
If you happened to UNINTENTIONALLY write something that something that was similar to an existing song, you MAY be safe... but that is not what you did here.
earwizzle
New member
It is hard to say with out hearing it, butto me you have created something original.
If you are layering two melodies and changing significant notes, than it is original.
Creating new harmonies where there were none...that is a new melody.
As for you people attacking the dude for borrowing ideas...get off your high horse. everyone borrows ideas.
He obviously had to put some time and work into making these two melodies work together, so it is not laziness. it was an inspiration that made him work to do it. That is creativity.
And Lil jon stole his 4 note melodies from techno songs?
I'd like to hear the songs you had in mind but the melodies aren't really what his tracks are about. Sure, the sounds are very similar to techno, that is the machines he used. the tracks are way slower and have raps over them and serve a completely different purpose. New ideas! creativity! music!
If you are layering two melodies and changing significant notes, than it is original.
Creating new harmonies where there were none...that is a new melody.
As for you people attacking the dude for borrowing ideas...get off your high horse. everyone borrows ideas.
He obviously had to put some time and work into making these two melodies work together, so it is not laziness. it was an inspiration that made him work to do it. That is creativity.
And Lil jon stole his 4 note melodies from techno songs?
I'd like to hear the songs you had in mind but the melodies aren't really what his tracks are about. Sure, the sounds are very similar to techno, that is the machines he used. the tracks are way slower and have raps over them and serve a completely different purpose. New ideas! creativity! music!
Good article. Like many said..... that a lot of forms of rap music and r and b have been tweek and twisted and even some remade from an original track....which again that is lame and not original and that's why certain people like kanye west have no talent and way overatted in my book.
Have some originality bro from the basics and you'll be more satisfied than worried.
Have some originality bro from the basics and you'll be more satisfied than worried.
houseofthesun
New member
"cos the melody and idea came to me quickly i kinda feel bad. but when i think it about, i did spend all of time tweaking the synth for the right sound, plus it took time to exam the off notes, do all the quantisation myself etc...
but i guess if u listened to it, u could tell the two tunes, but it isnt blatent...
u shud try doing this, and tell me how u feel after..., it is definitly an experiences... safe"
This is the wakst ish iv ever read on the net, man you wouldnt be able to make music if it wasnt for computers. ( i dont know you could be able to play an instrument but it dont sound like it ) You took time to tweek a synth sound and quantise, man i could get my baby cuz to do that stuff, i could get a bum off the street to do that, go put some time and effort into making music and stop stealing. Imagine if you only had 4 adats a mixer and a bunch of musical instruments, you wouldnt be able to make a track, thats sad, but hey most of the kids on the net are in the same boat, and the way the worlds going i guess who cares, keep stealing take credit make yours get rich and die trying.
"As for you people attacking the dude for borrowing ideas...get off your high horse. everyone borrows ideas. "
He didnt say borrow he said stole. This is different from using the same chord proggresion. Borrowing ideas would be him being able to play the melody on an instrument then taking it from there. Oh and a computer is not a musical instrument. ( it can run and be the musician for a musical instrument )
But bottom line he isnt the first and he aint going to be the last, so it comes down to a personal level if you think you stole and dont like stealing dont do it.
"And Lil jon stole his 4 note melodies from techno songs? "
He got the idea to throw techno sounds in hip hop but didnt steal melodeys ( well who knows ) Cause Dre steals his stuff but if you check out ascap you will find dre credits the people he stole stuff from. Dre will directly steal a riff throw swinging hip hop drums over the top and wham bam you got a new hit track. So if you really think you stole something credit the person that you got your stuff from.
Just like if you sample then you have to pay to use the recorded material.
but i guess if u listened to it, u could tell the two tunes, but it isnt blatent...
u shud try doing this, and tell me how u feel after..., it is definitly an experiences... safe"
This is the wakst ish iv ever read on the net, man you wouldnt be able to make music if it wasnt for computers. ( i dont know you could be able to play an instrument but it dont sound like it ) You took time to tweek a synth sound and quantise, man i could get my baby cuz to do that stuff, i could get a bum off the street to do that, go put some time and effort into making music and stop stealing. Imagine if you only had 4 adats a mixer and a bunch of musical instruments, you wouldnt be able to make a track, thats sad, but hey most of the kids on the net are in the same boat, and the way the worlds going i guess who cares, keep stealing take credit make yours get rich and die trying.
"As for you people attacking the dude for borrowing ideas...get off your high horse. everyone borrows ideas. "
He didnt say borrow he said stole. This is different from using the same chord proggresion. Borrowing ideas would be him being able to play the melody on an instrument then taking it from there. Oh and a computer is not a musical instrument. ( it can run and be the musician for a musical instrument )
But bottom line he isnt the first and he aint going to be the last, so it comes down to a personal level if you think you stole and dont like stealing dont do it.
"And Lil jon stole his 4 note melodies from techno songs? "
He got the idea to throw techno sounds in hip hop but didnt steal melodeys ( well who knows ) Cause Dre steals his stuff but if you check out ascap you will find dre credits the people he stole stuff from. Dre will directly steal a riff throw swinging hip hop drums over the top and wham bam you got a new hit track. So if you really think you stole something credit the person that you got your stuff from.
Just like if you sample then you have to pay to use the recorded material.
C
centexdance
Guest
That's what you call a Google push right there. when someone finds a thread in a board when they googled it and then joined to answer the thread, or ask a question based on the thread (I'm guilty, cause, I did here, in one thread)...
That said though, I still believe, even though the origional poster isn't here, it's still a pretty cool discussion, and, I'll tell ya what, it all depends on what you wanna call yerself.
If you wanna call yourself a composer, you can't sample, mix or whatevah, but, if you call yerself an arranger, LOL.. I guess it's ok.
I do choir music, and get frustrated when I buy somethin' think it's gonna be aight, and then find out that I already had that song b4, it's just been rearranged. It's like Concordia publishing company has a bunch of monkeys up there just redoin' old crap, and producing new crap.... and I mean it, the majority of the stuff they put out is just the same songs but different vocal arrangements or small difference in the piano... Um... alright, and that's way origional.. I can't believe people get paid to do what some of them are doing, and where can I sign up for that job...
Peace
Mike
-------------------
Monkey for hire
That said though, I still believe, even though the origional poster isn't here, it's still a pretty cool discussion, and, I'll tell ya what, it all depends on what you wanna call yerself.
If you wanna call yourself a composer, you can't sample, mix or whatevah, but, if you call yerself an arranger, LOL.. I guess it's ok.
I do choir music, and get frustrated when I buy somethin' think it's gonna be aight, and then find out that I already had that song b4, it's just been rearranged. It's like Concordia publishing company has a bunch of monkeys up there just redoin' old crap, and producing new crap.... and I mean it, the majority of the stuff they put out is just the same songs but different vocal arrangements or small difference in the piano... Um... alright, and that's way origional.. I can't believe people get paid to do what some of them are doing, and where can I sign up for that job...
Peace
Mike
-------------------
Monkey for hire
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