Sound Design VS Music Theory/Composition...???

C

Chew_Bear

New member
On a basic level...I understand the "CORE" of both Disciplines. Where I am confused is...

1. Where they overlap...??? (Similarities, commonalities)
2. How they can compliment each other....???

Its kind of like the age old...Religion VS Philosophy. Music theory is the religion part. Sound Design is the philosophy part.

Because I mainly want to make electronic dance music...I am heavily influenced by sound design. Sampling, software/virtual instruments and basically sound manipulation is definitely what I am into.

But...I also understand that music theory is a major part of what makes music...music.

So to that end...Its always a never ending quest of trying to figure out which sounds would sound good in a musical and harmonic way that can appeal to the music theory gods....BUT....that can also push the envelope of not just music but audio and sounds in general.

Anyone have any opinions and info to add to such a topic....???

All opinions, suggestions and answers are greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
You don't understand either. That was apparent the moment I read the rest of your post.
Music theory is about as much of a religion as......mathematics or chemistry.
Furthermore. music theory does not make music "music"---MUSIC makes music "music". Theory is just the explanation of what is being done-not a religious directive that has to be followed.
 
Last edited:
Where they overlap? Well, for example in your synth design you can decide what musical intervals to use for synth OSC layers. And then how you play around with the results is going to inherently be an issue of overlapping. But I wouldn't compare any of music stuff to religion. Religion is a convoluted mess of superstitions, wishful thinking, historical inaccuracies, and magical thinking like praying to santa claus. It's not really very rational at all.
 
Chew_Bear said:
On a basic level...I understand the "CORE" of both Disciplines. Where I am confused is...

1. Where they overlap...??? (Similarities, commonalities)
2. How they can compliment each other....???

Its kind of like the age old...Religion VS Philosophy. Music theory is the religion part. Sound Design is the philosophy part.

Because I mainly want to make electronic dance music...I am heavily influenced by sound design. Sampling, software/virtual instruments and basically sound manipulation is definitely what I am into.

But...I also understand that music theory is a major part of what makes music...music.

So to that end...Its always a never ending quest of trying to figure out which sounds would sound good in a musical and harmonic way that can appeal to the music theory gods....BUT....that can also push the envelope of not just music but audio and sounds in general.

Anyone have any opinions and info to add to such a topic....???

All opinions, suggestions and answers are greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

believing in music theory is perhaps a religion for some, but it is actually more attuned to mathematics and physics than religion as pumpthrust notes: i.e. it explains what happens in concrete terms and thus can also give us a why it happens in some cases

the core segment of music theory that overlaps with sound design is that of the harmonic/overtone series: the ratio between each overtone is what is used by some theoreticians to derive tuning mechanisms.

Some use a sequence of harmonically pure perfect 5ths to construct scales: 2:3: e.g. C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-Db-AB-Eb-Bb-F-C
Some use a sequence of harmonically pure perfect 4ths to construct scales: 3:4: e.g. C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-B-E-A-D-G-C

and fold down the resulting frequencies into the same octave. In real terms, today we play out of tune equally and in all keys, as all notes are the same distance apart the 12th root of 2 (1.05946) (12 tone equal temperament or 12tet)

Tuning methodCC#/DbDD#/EbEFF#/GbGG#/AbAA#/BbBCReasoning
Perfect 5ths264.30278.44297.34313.24330.00352.40371.25396.45417.66440.00469.86495.00528.60All 5ths are in tune
Perfect 4ths260.74274.69293.33309.03325.56347.65366.25391.11412.03440.00463.54488.34521.48All 4ths are in tune
12tet261.63277.18293.66311.13329.63349.23369.99392.00415.30440.00466.16493.88523.25All 8ves are in tune

where all of these fail is that the harmonics of a given note are considered to be integer multiples of the fundamental frequency, regardless of the mechanism used to generate the overtone structure

very quickly these pure harmonics become out of tune with other related harmonics in notes that construct chords

for example a chord based on A = 55Hz in equal temperament has the following overtones attached to the A, C# and E (freqs are 12tet based)

Harmonic number
Root Note/12345678
A055.00A1110.00E2165.00A2220.00C#3275.00E3330.00G3385.00A440.00
C#169.30C#2138.59G#2207.89C#3277.18E#3346.48G#3415.77B3485.07C#4554.37
E182.41E2164.81B2247.22E3329.63G#3412.03B3494.44D4576.85E4659.26

Almost immediately we can identify points of clashing in the overtones of each chord tone:
  • E2 has two different frequencies
  • C#3 has two different frequencies
  • E3 has two different frequencies
  • We have both E3 and E#3
  • We have G3 and G#3 and A3
  • G#3 has two different frequencies
  • B3 has two different frequencies

These clashes are the basis for the "rules" about spacing of voices/parts/notes in low registers:
  • at least an octave if the notes are below E1,
  • at least a fifth for notes between E1 and E2
  • anything within reason above E2 (lots of stacked semitones are still not considered good form even in this post-modern age
 
Music theory has nothing to do with sound design like that - they're 2 different knowledges. Period.

Music theory is more about the "rules of songwriting" so you may write more harmonic and smooth music (or something, I'm not schooled on this, but more home educated).
Sound design is simply about the art of different techniques for creating a sound artificially (you just heard this from an experienced sound designer).

The only way these 2 different worlds would overlap is by taking music theory into consideration when sound designing to make the sound work as good as possible in actual music creation (for instance, if you go too harsh on Sync modulation the musical notes may get vague and therefore the scales may not get accurate, therefore making your progression horrible musically - this means you need to know some basic music theory to prevent this).
 
given what i wrote before (and as another seasoned sound designer), you have it half right

- you need to understand harmonic series and how the pure overtone structures generated in wavetables or using the standard waveforms for subtractive synthesis (Triangle, Sawtooth/ramp, Square and the various pulse permutations of these) all differ from expected frequencies in 12tet

the harmonic series is the basis of most other music theory related to harmony and melody, so it is pretty much the cornerstone of not only sound design but melodic and harmonic design
 
Both sound design and music theory can be derived from physics, but from a composer's/producer's perspective there's not much overlap when you're actually making music.
Chew_Bear said:
So to that end...Its always a never ending quest of trying to figure out which sounds would sound good in a musical and harmonic way that can appeal to the music theory gods....BUT....that can also push the envelope of not just music but audio and sounds in general.
Click to expand...
You're viewing theory in the wrong way because you don't know very much of it. From your perspective, there are things you 'can't' do. This isn't correct- theory doesn't tell you what you can and can't do, just what the effect is of doing so. One man's clashy chord is another man's elegant dissonance.

In terms of theory, everything you think you are doing that 'breaks the rules' in some way has been done before by someone who had their own, theory based, reasons for doing so.
 
Chew_Bear said:
On a basic level...I understand the "CORE" of both Disciplines. Where I am confused is...

1. Where they overlap...??? (Similarities, commonalities)
2. How they can compliment each other....???

Its kind of like the age old...Religion VS Philosophy. Music theory is the religion part. Sound Design is the philosophy part.

Because I mainly want to make electronic dance music...I am heavily influenced by sound design. Sampling, software/virtual instruments and basically sound manipulation is definitely what I am into.

But...I also understand that music theory is a major part of what makes music...music.

So to that end...Its always a never ending quest of trying to figure out which sounds would sound good in a musical and harmonic way that can appeal to the music theory gods....BUT....that can also push the envelope of not just music but audio and sounds in general.

Anyone have any opinions and info to add to such a topic....???

All opinions, suggestions and answers are greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Wow i just glimpsed the other responses and you got trashed for no reason lol I'm sorry. So here ya go:
They actually have a LOT of overlap

Sound design is the creation of sounds. Whether musical synths (pianos, etc), drum synths (snare, etc) it means: creating those sounds. When you design a sound, you operate within the boundaries of music theory.

Aka if I'm making a piano synth, I'll put a "fundamental" tone at 110 hz and because I'm operating within the confines of music theory, I'll create a harmonic tone at 220 hz, 440 hz, and so on. Music theory states that two tones at relating frequencies sound well together. Since 220 hz is 110hz times 2, those two frequencies will sound good together.

I wouldn't worry too much about creating your own synths if you're producing, though. There are plenty of experts out there who've made great synths for you and I to use already.

And to answer your 2nd question "how to they complement each other", if I were to be making the synth I previously mentioned- I could throw in an extra harmonic frequency right where the 5th of the chord is in order to implement my own flavor, again within the confines of music theory because that is what will sound appealing.

Hope that helped!
 
Composition is closer to mixing then sound design is. But sound design and compositions affect mixing. You can add fifth and seventh and 12th in your design of a synth but that limits the use of your synth to just play some chords, not the song, just chords:P
You should learn both composition has different aspects like songwriting consideration and all the scales theory blabla. For the theory go to Daves conservatoire( it's free and explained for people who have no knowledge before hand). For sound design go to seamlessR's channel, he has a lot of content to satisfy most peoples needs in sound design theory(plus if your pretty new to sound design he started making a basics video series)

have a good one,
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top