Song Composition...ouch!

D

DJTwilight

Guest
Every producer I've ever given my homemade Trance CD, says that the song composition needs more... :( ...I start with the first bass hit and I move up to the last fading chord...I don't plan my songs...I just put in next what I would want to hear @ a rave while I am dancing...SHOULD I BE PLANNING MY SONGS?? I have been making Trance for a while but still all I hear is "composition, composition" ...And the hardest part is that they love my sound...they love my style...they love ME...I am this close to being signed every time and then they say "composition"
I am this close to going insane...HELP!
 
That's life. One rule I know: Keep the melody buildup simple. (Don't change too many times)
Another: Your beat can be elaborate, as long as it don't interfere with the melody.
 
Keep the song interesting from beginning to the end, and keep it original. No use in a perfect sounding track, that almost is exactly as the lastest hit on the radio....
 
hehe just being flippant...maybe ask the critics exzactly what compositional elements do they refer to and can they give you a cuple of artist names and track titles to ellaborate on what they mean? Sounds like you are a bit frustrated as to what it is exactly they want to improve before they give u a recording deal or pressing and distribution deal.
and...
good luck
PS Ask other people what THEY would like to hear next at a dance party.
 
.

I have a friend who makes lots of tracks on fruity loops and he wants to take them up the street to plus 8. One of his tracks he toock a sample from a plastikman track and looped it in, but it almost sound the same as the origional plastikman track, same tempo and same loop, so though it's cool I thought what's the point someone's going to see only a slint of origionality there because a bulk of the song sounds the same.

Id on't want to discourage him too much though so I didn't even really tell him that. Also he makes other tracks that are pounding and almost like techo/industrial or something which it's hard for me to get into but I also don't say that, but he's got this affliction of plastikman influence and it's soo noticeable in his songs that I almost feel as though he's making his own tracks he's not really making his own track. Know what I'm sayin'?

I also think plus 8 won't go for his cd because it's not what they're about (the style I mean) so good luck to him I guess.

I can't get into the stuff he writes but who knows maybe other people will dig it.

Sorry to kind of go off on a tangent but your thread reminded me of the whole situation.

As far as your dilemma goes I wish you luck. I'm not into trance really and I don't even really like it. I find it's for people who are obviously on drugs while listening to it because sometimes it's so cheesy but it's got that whole epic journey thing going for it to kind of sweep you away into another world...when you're on drugs lol.

Sorry, my opinion not yours. But best of luck to you I can imagine it must be really frustrating getting soo close as you say, hopefully it will inspire you more. If they keep referring to composition maybe you could look into some hardcore composed music like classical to get a better idea of what the hell they're trying to tell you lol because I like you would make what I like and maybe it's based on naievity but I couldn't get a wider picture of what they're trying to say.
 
Same as alwayz...

II: All the folks who care
Thanx guys...guess I just gotta keep on Truckin' huh? I know my stuff is good...I'm 18 and I am making music that is better than all the crap I am forced to listen to ny weirdos that make music like everybody else...I am frustrated because I have the talent and the only people who notice it are the ones who WOULD be buying it off the shelves...NOT the record companies...I wish I could just get a frikin' break...But so does everybody else...I am moving out of Cali because I am hoping my music will hit big somewhere else...Phoenix, AZ...So if you see my CD and you trust your instincts...buy it...

coming soon...
TwiliGHT..."Redemption"

P.EACE L.OVE U.NITY R.ESPECT R.ESPONSIBILITY
 
hey man, can i download something u have produced? would be cool to hear and judge it myself :P
cant have to much of good music ya know!
 
II: Everyone who wants to know if they can download some music by TwiliGHT...YES U MAY!!!

http://www.mindsivisions.com/test/
The song file is called: Twilight_I.mp3
Just click on the file and the download will start right away...
The song available is the first song on my CD and it's one of my favorites...The album will be called "Redemption". Not too much clutter, and bass that just won't quit...All music composed by me: Twilight, in my dark, blacklit room, night after night for month after month...My heart and soul is poured into this music so I know U will all like it...Anyone should feel free to download this but don't steal...Feel free to show your buddies and have them send me a few notes of what they think too...If the majority of U like it...I'll put some more up for U all to enjoy...The "effects" are by an ex girlfriend, but it was all staged...so don't get grossed out...Just think about U @ a rave, and all of a sudden U hear the first bass hit and U know U aren't gonna be let down by TwiliGHT... :)
Enjoy,
Twilight


[Edited by DJTwilight on 04-04-2001 at 11:06 AM]
 
your track

ive heard your track...
not bad i guess...keep it up and be your own self...

once u have your style, try eperimenting with different sounds i, its good to play around a little so u can realise wat sounds good with wat. dont be afraid to step out of your comfort zone. be wild and creative with your sounds. at the same time dont over throw it too much or it will sound burnt...

congratulations.
 
Yeah I grabbed your track.

I liked it. It's pretty good! I mean, you wouldn't hear it being spun at Ibiza or something (not like mine would either), but It's good stuff. I don't see why they'd try to knock you for it. I didn't dig the beggining to well. I loved the concept, it just needs the rough edges chipped away I guess. Mabey a few pads or something in the background of the main parts of the song to make it feel more full. But other than that I think its' really good. Keep it up. :) They probably just knocked you because it's not like that commercial stuff you always find... But I like it.
 
II DJ Nytestrike
Thanx man!! My other songs are much fuller, but not many people are downloading this song, so I'm gonna wait until I get to Phoenix to showcase any more...Thanx for the support...I hope the people in AZ like it as much as I do...My friends all dig it too, but I will be spinning it @ a rave soon and I will let U all know how it goes... :) I'll either come out a Legend or a flop...I figure as long as I play music...how pissed can they get ya know?? LOL :)

- TwiliGHT
P.eace L.ove U.nity R.espect R.esponsibility
"TwiliGHT is upon me..." -Yoda, Return of the Jedi
 
go forth u good composers!
u might be interested ... me and dj stretch and kubina are doing an online thingo where we drop samples up to our own folder at a holding place i set up, and the object is to do a track/tracks ala NIN/Prodigy. Interesting combination, it was Kubina's idea
 
Composition

OK, I think I know what those guys were talking about when they said "composition, composition, composition".

I'm not trying to slam you here. Really. I'm just offering up my two cents about what I heard.

That piece is pretty good, but it sounds a mite thin. Especially at the beginning. That opening sound just doesn't sound (to ME) very satisfying. Needs more overtones, or, I don't know. It needs SOMETHING to fill it out a little more.

While many of the ideas in that piece are good, it still sounds like it's a piece in progress. And the main reason I say that is... it has no discernable melody line. None!

Melody is very important. Even simple, repeated melodies. There is nothing about that piece that grabbed my attention. Nothing "memorable" (which is really what a melody is there for). And I think THAT'S what people mean about composition.

Like I said, this is just my own impression, and isn't meant to slam your work. I think you've got some real talent there, but it just needs to come together a little more. You've got the rhythm part down - it changes enough to be interesting, but is good and steady with fine build-ups and releases. Now you just need to give it that "something extra" that puts it in peoples heads and won't let them go. And THAT is melody.
 
Ther's no point in planning your song completely, it takes away a lot of the fun and skill, and some things are more appropriate depending on who's listning to it, but it usualy helps to keep one factor constant throughout without varing it, this keeps a feeling of continuity going. It's good to have a basic structure, but just make it sound good! If ya need any help with melodys (ie from a technical point of view), then it could be usefull for you to know that i'm a grade 8 jazz pianist, so i know if something makes musical sence, and i'd be happy to help you write melodys, or check over some of your existing ones for technical hitches.
 
To answer the first post.

Music can get verry repetative if not done corectly.

Most mistakes lay in simple drum loops.
In order to acheave a fealing of constant change and movement drums play the most important part.
Your melody can be simple as hell but making a complex drum structure will take it to a new level.

Try this start with a flat kik drum
16 beats lator add an open hat and a clap
16 beats lator add a closed hat and the bass line
16 beats lator add a runing hat
add a a sybal crash every 32 beats
on your 4th 16 beat patern remove 8 beats of everything and let only the bass line run
bring in your melody sructure after 64 beats.
16 beats lator ad some kind of a wood kik or bongows
16 beats lator add a hard hat
16 beats lator add another instrument layer to your melody
16 beats lator ad your snair buldup
here comes the brake down.
change up the intrument into something melow for your melody.
ones the buld up is complete and your trck hits the hi point add the preveous two layers of the melody.
the drum structure shold not be at its hi point here.
let the drums run for 16 beats with the folowing:

- kik drum
-open hat and a clap
--wood kik or bongows
-hard hat

16 beats lator add a closed hat
16 beats lator add a runing hat

hope this helps!
the more comlex the hi-hats and wood kiks the batere sounding track u will h have. Its like creating a melody just with the drums. It will make the track sound thiker.

The rest is up to your imagination and creativity.
whered sound like thunder can create a more powerfull buld or breakdown in track.

experiment and let me know if this helps.
 
II: DJ Maxell
Thanx for the good advice...It's good for me 'cause I usually just let the drums do their thing instead of taking control and letting the drums say something too...thanx again
 
check out the folowing traxx to get an idea of what i'm talking about.

Karuma - On-Y-Va (FRIDGE remix)
Moontrap - Folow the Sun (Dogma Remix)
 
Karuma - On-Y-Va

Goddamn those bastards who made that track. It is sooo sweet. I love it. Why wouldn't they just let me make it? :D
Anyway. The just described sequences with drum buildups and all, are the classic way to build up a trance track. It doesn't mean you have to do it that way yourself.
Personally I'm getting more and more into the more progressive trance where the buildups are much more unique and usually without snare or drumrolls.

Maybe try out Pascal Feos "OverFlow" and Paul Van Dyk's "Outpost". Not totally progressive, but anyway.
I can also recommend:
H-Bomb - Inspiration / Groove Attack
Electrique Botique - Revelation
Hatiras - Spaced Invaders
Argonaut - Cut'n Groove

These tracks are all very unique and inspiring. Cut'n Grrove is very dark, allmost goa, and the beat just goes on and on, which is very impressive, cause it's still interessting.
 
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