some help with chord progressions please!!!

N

nattwalls

Guest
hi,

im beginning to get head around all this music theory madness!
so...

say im in the key of c

i want to play a i-iv-v progression.

i play play CEG, then FAC, then GBD. cool?

but i dont want to play major chords. i want to play a a Cmin7 an F6 and a Gmin (im trynna get jazzy with it!!).

is that still a i-iv-v progression?
am i talking crazy?
should i care? oh but i do!
why are progrssions so important?
ive read books/sites on this, but either i must be thick coz i cant work it out/ or theyre not telling it right. and lessons aint cheap at £20-25 a pop.

can someone drop a quick post to tell me if im on the right track, or point me in the right direction?

appreciated, peace
 
I'm also interested in the subject, and I hope someone with substantial understanding responds. But my current understanding is such...

I-IV-V means you're going to play the chords underneath the 1st, 4th, and 5th note of whatever scale you're using. So if you want to play minor chords, just make your base key a Minor chord (thus a minor scale)

For instance, the 1-4-5 of any Minor key/scale would sound different than a 1-4-5 of a Major key/scale.

(I'm a guitarist so I tend to think of Keys as the notes I can play within, and that is a scale to me, so I probably incorrectly get some of this confused.)

just want to add...once you have your Minor key you want to play in, the way to find out if those I-IV-V positions are going to be major or minor, just start from each positions root note, and notice the 1st-3rd-5 th (and 7th and on up if you want) notes going forward from that point in the scale. The 3rd note tells if it's major or minor. And the 7th+ notes deliver the unique flavor (beyond happy/sad) of your song's Key(scale).

Hope that helps.
 
jizzer said:
I-IV-V means you're going to play the chords underneath the 1st, 4th, and 5th note of whatever scale you're using.
Click to expand...

not entirely sure i get what you mean.
do you mean that the chord will be CFG if i write i-iv-v? or the root note of each chord will be i-iv-v? can you please elaborate? thanks

that did help though, cheers
 
no matter how you modify the chord, Cmin7 or Cmaj7 or Cmaj...you will still play the note C in the left hand as a root...BUT...if you really want to fatten the sounds up, you can flip the voicings of the chords...so if you typically play "closed" voicings...CEG to FAC to GBD...you can spread them out for example play G in the bass, then GEC above it...by combining different voicings of the chords you can really notice a difference in your sounds...just think about "what if i mixed it up..."
 
nattwalls said:
not entirely sure i get what you mean.
do you mean that the chord will be CFG if i write i-iv-v?
Click to expand...
No.
or the root note of each chord will be i-iv-v?
Click to expand...
Yes.

But I disagree with Cicero above, you can't just arbitrarily make the I-IV-V major or minor....whether they are major or minor depends on the Key of the Song.

For instance...a C Major Key is based on the C Major scale. So the available notes in the whole song are..C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

So if we were playing I-IV-V positions we would have...

First Chord: C Major, made up of C, G, B (the 1,3,5 notes of the scale) If you play this chord, you'll see it's Major because the 3rd note is 2 whole steps away from the root (Major chords always have this 3rd note in that spot)

Second Chord (IV position): root note is F, right? But is it major or minor? Well, starting from F, and using ONLY the notes allowed in our C major key, ...look and see what the 1,3,5th notes are. They would be F, A, and C right? Now...how far away from F is A (the 3rd note)? It's 2 whole steps, right? That means it's an F Major chord.

Third Chord (V position): root note is G. Look at the 1,3,5th notes from G...they are B and D (G, B, D), right? How many steps is it from G to B? It's only 3 half-steps, so that tells us that the V position chord is G Minor.

major chords have the 3rd note 2 whole steps away from the root.
minor chords have the 3rd note 1 1/2 whole steps away from root.

(p.s. "Steps" are like the individual notes....G to G# is a half step...G to A is a Whole Step, G to A# is a Whole Step + Half Step etc.)

Hope that made sense, and more importantly I hope it's actually correct. ;)
 
its good to see someone else has some basic theory in hiphop, a welcome change...

what i put in simple terms is that no matter the QUALITY of the chord, major, minor, dim/aug...if it is fundamentally a "C" chord, C being the root...I know you know what I'm saying...and who's to say you can't arbitrarilly change minor and major, ever listen to Impressionistic Era Piano Preludes or some Mahler?
 
cicero19 said:
its good to see someone else has some basic theory in hiphop, a welcome change...

what i put in simple terms is that no matter the QUALITY of the chord, major, minor, dim/aug...if it is fundamentally a "C" chord, C being the root...I know you know what I'm saying...and who's to say you can't arbitrarilly change minor and major, ever listen to Impressionistic Era Piano Preludes or some Mahler?
Click to expand...

thats something ive been trying to get tune with. transitioning maj/min chords and being able to switch it up so suttle like some good orc shyt.

btw.jizzer that pic allmost made me shyt my pants....i need a manpon:monkey:
 
jizzer said:
No.

Yes.

But I disagree with Cicero above, you can't just arbitrarily make the I-IV-V major or minor....whether they are major or minor depends on the Key of the Song.

For instance...a C Major Key is based on the C Major scale. So the available notes in the whole song are..C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

So if we were playing I-IV-V positions we would have...

First Chord: C Major, made up of C, G, B (the 1,3,5 notes of the scale) If you play this chord, you'll see it's Major because the 3rd note is 2 whole steps away from the root (Major chords always have this 3rd note in that spot)
Click to expand...

I'm sure you only made a typo, but the chord is CEG, not CGB. ( for the guy asking )

Third Chord (V position): root note is G. Look at the 1,3,5th notes from G...they are B and D (G, B, D), right? How many steps is it from G to B? It's only 3 half-steps, so that tells us that the V position chord is G Minor.
Click to expand...

It's 4 semitones from G-B, the dominant chord in C Major is G Major and that's what this chord is, a G minor would have a Bb as the 3rd.

@ Nattwalls, you're not in C Major with those chords, you are using the C Dorian mode. ( C,D,Eb,F,G,A,Bb ) The 4th chord in a Dorian mode is a major one and other than the the use of the 'D' note to make up an F6, the basic major triad is there with the F,A,C. ( You might want to play a Gm7 by adding an 'F' to the basic Gm chord, it will give a more satisfying sound if the F6 follows. )

I don't know if it's 'Jazzy' as such, there are diatonic chords but I suppose it depends on what's going on underneath it all in the rest of the music.

Personally, I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the thinking stuff and just play what sounds good to you.
 
nattwalls said:
hi,

im beginning to get head around all this music theory madness!
so...

say im in the key of c

i want to play a i-iv-v progression.

i play play CEG, then FAC, then GBD. cool?

but i dont want to play major chords. i want to play a a Cmin7 an F6 and a Gmin (im trynna get jazzy with it!!).

is that still a i-iv-v progression?
am i talking crazy?
should i care? oh but i do!
why are progrssions so important?
ive read books/sites on this, but either i must be thick coz i cant work it out/ or theyre not telling it right. and lessons aint cheap at £20-25 a pop.

can someone drop a quick post to tell me if im on the right track, or point me in the right direction?

appreciated, peace
Click to expand...
Well theres nothing wrong with that progression. Its been said a million times...if it sounds good then go with it.

But essentially if your playing that progression your in the key of C min (or C dorian like Delphine said). And when you play the F6 chord you'll be playing chromatic (out of scale) notes (in Cmin). But the progression doesn't sound bad at all..so it works well as a chord substitution. And another thing...don't be scared of major chords. They can really jazz up the vibe if you play the right chords against it in the progression.
 
damn, damn, damn...I did make some serious typos, thank you Delphin for catching that. Man, I'm sorry. that's got to make it more confusing, but listen to Delphin!
 
yeah, many thanks to all of you.
i might have a few more questions when i digest this, but...
can recommend books/etc where i might be able to learn this in more depth/more completely? ive tried reading a few, but they're in another language!

ive been playing guitar for a few years, but mostly by ear. a friend said i should learn the rules/theory, only so that i can play/compose with more ease/ability. i dont intend to stick by music theory strictly, only when its benefical to me... for those advising to play what sounds good.
 
nattwalls said:
yeah, many thanks to all of you.
i might have a few more questions when i digest this, but...
can recommend books/etc where i might be able to learn this in more depth/more completely? ive tried reading a few, but they're in another language!
Click to expand...

Really sorry again about those mistakes. It's hard enough to digest when the information is correct, much less having to replace letters later. But I'm gonna make it up to you.

I'd like to tell you about scales real quick. I saw there was a big list for d/l on the forum in another thread.

- "Scales" are just different ways of going from root to root. Each scale has a unique pattern from the next.

- The "Major" scale is this pattern: Whole-Whole-Half-Whole-Whole-Whole-Half (steps)

- a "C Major scale" is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (you'll see it follows the pattern above)

Now, what if instead of starting the Major scale from the first note, you were to play the SAME notes, except start from the 2nd note and finish with the second note (so from D to D)? If you look at the pattern from D to D (and count whole half etc.) you will notice it is not the same pattern as the major scale, even though the same notes are used.

What is this new pattern from D to D? It's called Dorian mode. And if you start from the 3rd note (E) and play through to E, it's yet another pattern, and it's called Phrygian mode.

etc. etc.

All the "Phrygian, Mixolydian" stuff is just taking a major scale, and playing it from different notes inside of itself. However, just because these other scales are 'contained' within the Major scale - they sound NOTHING a like at all. Because if you change the root note underneath the song, you are in effect, changing the scale your playing.

Try this: Play a C Major scale while your computer plays a C note on the bass. Notice how happy it sounds. Now play the same C Major scale, except have your computer play a bass drone note that is A. You'll notice the same notes that sounded happy when a C was playing, now sound sad when an A is playing. (Because you're actually playing A Minor now)

--------------------------------------------------------------

ok, enough of that...you wanna learn something cool?

Practice this...I call it 'guessing' for the right note, and even though it teaches you nothing in terms of music theory, it's an incredibly cool way to get past all that and just let your ears be the guide. It's also a nice exercise to show people that they don't need to know where all the notes are, they don't even need to know the tuning of the guitar! In fact, it helps to not even look at which exact notes you're playing, that doesn't matter.

First, have a friend "test" you. Have the friend play any note on your guitar. Then have the friend go up 1,2, or 3 frets and play that note. Your job is to 'guess' if your friend went up 1,2, or 3 notes. Keep doing this until you can 'hear' the unique sound of 1,2, and 3 fret intervals. (Tip: 1 fret sounds sad/squirrely, 2 frets sounds 'normal', no emotion, 3 frets sounds 'bluesy' and pained)

Once you're super good at guessing those...

Then, put ANY random song on, listen for a second. Then, only using 1 string (the entire exercise), play ANY note that your finger finds, I don't care what it is. Ask yourself if that's the "root" note? If it's not, move around to different notes until you find the root note. You will "hear" when it's the root because the whole sound will gel together on that note the best.

Once you find the root note (and we already know that note is going to work), we start looking for other notes that will work. So, starting from the root note, just 'guess' if the next note is "1 fret, 2 frets, or 3 frets" away. THE CORRECT NOTE WILL ALWAYS BE ONE OF THOSE THREE. Just try all three. Whichever one sounds best with your song is the correct one. Then, guess again from that spot. Is the next note up 1,2, or 3 frets away? Try to 'guess' which one it is before you play it. If it's wrong, then it's one of the other two choices. At this point you will have 3 notes that you know "work" within the song, and you don't even have to know the name of the notes! Keep going up and finding more "correct" notes, just by 'guessing' at whether it's 1,2,or3 frets away until you have the whole scale figured out on ONE string. Then you can jam by playing around all those notes.

The cool thing about the above exercise is that your mind really helps you to know what's "In" and what's "Out", and you don't even have to really know what you're doing! ;) Seriously, somebody could give me a guitar with a weird tuning, and using the method above, I could quickly experiment to find which spots on the fretboard are correct. (And again, I don't have to know the letter names of the notes)

-----------------------------------------------

Sorry for the long post! lol, let me know if you need help.

(p.s. I'm a guitar teacher btw, so this isn't just outta my ass here ;) This will really help you.)

Take care!
 
jizzer said:
First, have a friend "test" you. Have the friend play any note on your guitar. Then have the friend go up 1,2, or 3 frets and play that note. Your job is to 'guess' if your friend went up 1,2, or 3 notes. Keep doing this until you can 'hear' the unique sound of 1,2, and 3 fret intervals. (Tip: 1 fret sounds sad/squirrely, 2 frets sounds 'normal', no emotion, 3 frets sounds 'bluesy' and pained)
Click to expand...

Neat. I've never tried this exercise but I thought the idea was cool, because I'm pretty good at guessing the intervals of something I'm listening to, and then being able to play something similar. But I'm terrible at pitch recognition. I can always tell if something is an A or an F#, but no other notes. I don't know why those two are so easy for me to recognize.
 
Hosey said:
But I'm terrible at pitch recognition. I can always tell if something is an A or an F#, but no other notes. I don't know why those two are so easy for me to recognize.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's called "Perfect Pitch" where you can name all the notes by hearing them. That **** is crazy to me. I can't even name 1 note personally so you're doing better than me at it.
 
I can name some too, it's weird though as to why I struggle with others. If someone just played a 'C' note, I can say that's a C, from there if they play others I can get them right after first hearing the C. But more often than not, the first note played ( say it was a C ) I sometimes say it's a B or a C#. So it's the initial notes that get me sometimes, the intervals after, I'm ok with.

Same with most chords, I can say, " that's a dominant 7th, or that's a Major 7th or whatever, but I'd be hard pushed to say it's a 'B' Maj7th or whatever.
 
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