Right hand melody...help?

[bandcoach]

What I've written is a little rule which keeps you in the scale, but you are right, that sometimes other notes may be used. Maybe the part in which I was wrong is cos i wrote "you must keep" to this rules. There are some occasions where you may not. My point is if you use notes only from the chosen scale, you can be sure, that your music wont sound wrong or disharmonic.

in English that would inharmonic or disharmonious

however, by sticking to the same notes in one scale rule, you would also remove the potential for creating interesting new ideas

if you stick to the one set of notes you end up being very predictable. This in itself is not a bad thing as most pop success is based on the idea of new ideas in old clothing and the degree to which you can predict what comes next vs the surprise of what actually comes next is the key to writing good pop in my many years of observing the charts and what constitutes good pop writing

But there are a lot of misicians that use other notes in their melodies. The example you gave with melodic asc and desc is classical, cos first you have a minor 7th and that is in the natural minor scale. But after that you play major 7th and it's not, but it sounds good.
Jazz musicians often do that.

Am I right?

yes and no - the concept of the ascending only melodic minor is also known as the jazz minor: I was not referencing the use of the scale as melodic tool but as a source of harmonic choice

Oh and one song I want to give as an example is Separate ways by Journey
Song is in Em
The progression on the chorus is: E5 D5 C5 D5 D#5 E5 and it sounds great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LatorN4P9aA

not exactly sure what your point is here, as the D[SUP]#[/SUP] is not a melodic idea but indicates that the chord is chord V[SUP]7#5b9[/SUP][SUB]/7[/SUB] in 1st inversion i.e B[SUP]7#5b9[/SUP][SUB]/D#[/SUB] as D[SUP]#[/SUP]-F[SUP]##[/SUP]-A-B-C (D[SUP]#[/SUP]-G-A-B-C), i.e. the chords are based on the idea that we are hearing i-[SUP]b[/SUP]VII-[SUP]b[/SUP]VI-i[SUB]/3[/SUB]-[SUP]b[/SUP]VII-V[SUP]7#5b9[/SUP][SUB]/7[/SUB]-i or a properly formed perfect cadence (some prefer authentic but it's too limited for my taste as a descriptive term) in the last two chords (Em-D-C-Em[SUB]/G[/SUB]-D-B[SUP]7#5b9[/SUP][SUB]/D#[/SUB]

 

[Pumpthrust]

What I've written is a little rule which keeps you in the scale, but you are right, that sometimes other notes may be used. Maybe the part in which I was wrong is cos i wrote "you must keep" to this rules. There are some occasions where you may not. My point is if you use notes only from the chosen scale, you can be sure, that your music wont sound wrong or disharmonic.

Not wrong, but try playing an F against a C major7 chord, then understand why lydian is the preferred choice.

 

[bandcoach]

You mean, you only know guitarists that know absolutely no theory, Generalizations are a sign of ignorance.
I get the stigma of guitarists being lazy, but that certainly doesn't apply to myself or players like:
Pat Metheny
George Benson
Sharon Isbin
Kurt Rosenwinkel
Kenny Burrell
Stanley Jordan
Pat Martino
Dave Stryker
etc......

or me!!!!

 

[Pumpthrust]

What's the best website to teach myself piano, without all the theory involved? I know quiet a good bit of it now. I need to learn piano more.

Youtube, if that is all you want. I don't understand what there is to be afraid of, but then again I am not you.
And let me be clear, you don't need theory to play music. I would almost suggest learning to play "by ear" if you think the theoretical aspects of it will be too intimidating. Better to not learn it at all than learn it half-assedly. I know this from experience and am still learning to this very day. At the very least, learn to sight-read.

 

[DrCIH]

You mean, you only know guitarists that know absolutely no theory, Generalizations are a sign of ignorance.
I get the stigma of guitarists being lazy, but that certainly doesn't apply to myself or players like:
Pat Metheny
George Benson
Sharon Isbin
Kurt Rosenwinkel
Kenny Burrell
Stanley Jordan
Pat Martino
Dave Stryker
etc......

Wrong. I said I know guitarists that are like that. And I had no intention to say all of us are like that. I just wanted to say there are some and that is surprising and shocking! And I don't like it. They give us the bad reputation of being ... not musicians and I hate it. I myself am trying to learn more theory and believe this is the right way.

 

[DrCIH]

or me!!!!

Me too.
Don't get me wrong I didn't say we guitar players don't learn theory. I've said that I've seen some doing it and that's bad.

 

[RunRunFar]

Hey thanks for all the replies. I'm not scared, just kind of stuck. I've read so much theory that i'm kind of stuck. My main thing is melody. But in my honest opinion (and I can see it) no matter how much you keep reading theory it's not going to progress you anywhere if you're not trying it out on piano. I don't ever take songs and try to break them apart or even practice them at all. I do like to listen to music though (alot) and try to hear the melodic direction they are going in. Which, some is confusing also. Right now I know about circle of fifths, how to form scales, notes/rest/etc and all that. But I need to kind of get dirty with all of it you know. I find myself messing around on the keyboard but my stuff always sounds the same. But, reason being is because if i'm in Aminor for example I always thought I had to start on an A and end in an A. Never knew I could start off in whatever key I wanted... which is awesome.

 

[Carltonc1111]

I think your approach is very limiting. Think of being in a certain key as your tonal center. There are certain chords that pull you to that tonal center like a magnet. A dominant 7th chord (G7) pulls you to C, just like a half step pulls you to the adjacent note. A lot of songs use chords outside of the diatonic scale, but they will ultimately make their way back to the tonal center. For example Em7-A7-Dm7 G7-C. The A7 chord has a C# in it, which is not in the C diatonic scale. However, it works because of the sequence of the chord progression and a concept called secondary dominants. In a nutshell, you need to learn all the scales, but there are other elements like song structure and the study chord progressions that will teach you how to navigate in and out of the original key within a song. There is no rule that you have to stay in the original key throughout a song, and a lot of songs don't, but they usually will end in the same key.

 

[Jon Neimeister]

My biggest recommendation RunRunFar would be to learn as much as you can about scales and chords. These are the building blocks of every song ever written, and until you're familiar enough with them that you can play them without taxing your brain it's going to be incredibly difficult to try and write melodies and chord progressions. It's like trying to build a house without a blueprint.

And, like you've said, reading theory is good but it also comes down to application. If I asked you to sit at the piano and play a D major scale, could you? What about Bd minor? Can you turn a G major chord in to a G minor chord, or a Gsus or a G7 chord?

When the answer to those questions is yes, then it's time to start thinking about applying that knowledge to songwriting, cause those are the tools that you use to write songs, and that's how hundreds of songs can be written in the same key, cause there's an infinite variety of combinations, alterations and rhythms that can be played within a single scale.

Also I know theory seems intimidating, but it's actually not as hard as it seems, because once you learn one type of scale or chord you have learned that same scale all the way up and down the piano. The intervals (distance between two notes) in a type of scale or chord is always the same no matter where you start. For example, in a C major scale, the first four notes are C, D, E and F. Starting at C, you go up two semitones (C# then D) to reach D. Then you go up another two semitones (D# then E) to reach E. Then you go up one semitone (straight to F because there's no black key in between) to reach F.
Now convert that to a D major scale instead of a C major, this pattern is exactly the same. You start at D, then go up two semitones to reach E, then go up two semitones to reach F#, then go up one semitone to reach G. So therefore the first four notes of the D major scale are D, E, F# and G.

That same idea applies to chords as well, and there are easier ways to remember what keys have what sharps and flats, but that is the basic principle and once you understand that you will be much closer to being able to write melodies and chord progressions. You don't have to know every chord and every scale off the top of your head, but you need understand the theory so you can figure it out if you don't know it.