Producing for years, still not achieving the sound I'm aiming at (techno/ deep house)

tiyotsu

tiyotsu

nighthawk
Hey folks,

as far as I can tell, my technical skills became quite alright over the last 2 years and when I make music I don't have the feeling that there's much of an issue about my mixing and mastering.. However, especially when I compare to tracks I really dig, I'm constantly completely ****ed up about the fact that most of the time my tracks lack of something, and they pretty much do since I started making music. Problem: I have no clue what they lack of. All I know is that other tracks sound less dry, more ​catchy, more here​. I'm making proper use of reverb, delay and saturation. Sometimes out of frustration I try to "imitate" this 'full' sound by totally abusing my master EQ but of course this can't be the solution.

My friend says that I'm taking my worries too serious and that it's just my personal opinion (and that you're never digging your own tracks) but I disagree, I made a few tracks I really like, still I can't figure out what I did different.

I really really want to improve and connect to other producers in real life but I find it hard to artificially get into local 'scenes', so all I can do right now is ask you guys, and what I ask you for is honest and - if you have the time - detailed feedback. I would totally appreciate if some pros or semi pros could help me figure out how I can improve my work, it's really depressing me and made me almost quit a few times.
I'm not asking for F4F or any of this childish stuff, so if you take your time and help me figure this out then all you'll get in return is a thank you from my heart, not a follow, like or comment. I know that I'm asking for much.

Let me show you two tracks I made these days and two track of an other artists I really dig, so you can compare.
PS here another very recent track of mine that I surprisingly appear to like: https://soundcloud.com/tiyotsu/anschlusstrack/s-tTdTO
 
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I would have to agree with your friends. I found nothing wrong with your tracks. I of course would arrange them differently but that's just my taste. I found nothing technically or artistically bad. I scanned through of course but it all sounded clean to me. hell I liked your kicks better than your comparison tracks. so what your tracks don't sound like your faves? I've been at this for five years and I can tell you hear and now your tracks are ready.
 
Sounds good to me and I agree with Ace. Give yourself more credit. I know as any type of creator it's easy to be very critical of your own work. That's what makes you want to get better though. Accept that it's a gift and a curse, you have to be confident in your work though. Not every track will pan out how you'd like as you know.

I honestly liked your tracks just as much if not more.

Anyway, to answer your question, play with compression a little more. Now that you have a good understanding of how the "rules/suggestions" correlate, break the rules. Experience is the best teacher. I also think if you work on shaping the sounds more with a combo of eq and compression alone you'll get closer. Layering could help as well.

I am in the same boat myself to an extent and that has helped me so far. It takes time though.

The main things I focus on are the
1. Emotion/mood
2. Can I hear everything? If not, turn it up.
3. Does anything JUMP out at me more than it should? If so what would be best for this specifically?
Compression, limiting, parallel compression, side chaining, saturation, Eq, Reverb, Automation or maybe just the little volume slider itself. It's up to you.

Focusing on those 3 things has helped me more than anything honestly. Use that with some reference tracks and you could see an improvement instantly.

Automation is your friend, use it wisely and have fun.

Good Luck.
 
You can also use pretty much all the things listed with number 3 for number 2 as well instead of just turning it up.
 
I heard your tracks and they are very good tracks!

I think what you're final product is lacking, compared to the other tracks you gave here for comparison, is presence.
It is something that you can bring to life in the mastering stage.

If you want, you can send me one of the tracks and I'll show you an example of it.
 
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Thank you for your kind words guys, you really lifted me up. It's easy for me to be too hard with me, as Evan pointed out this might be a good thing now and then but it also can start eating you up and take away your motivation.

EvanB said:
The main things I focus on are the
1. Emotion/mood
2. Can I hear everything? If not, turn it up.
3. Does anything JUMP out at me more than it should? If so what would be best for this specifically?
Compression, limiting, parallel compression, side chaining, saturation, Eq, Reverb, Automation or maybe just the little volume slider itself. It's up to you.
Click to expand...

Yeah I should definitely focus on core elements more. I often get caught up in putting way too much focus on way too little details, way too early in the production phase.
How would you define emotion and mood? I find it hard to 'build' an emotional harmony/ groove etc, most of the time this happens by accident for me. I like pads though ;)

fatalman said:
I think what you're final product is lacking, compared to the other tracks you gave here for comparison, is presence.
It is something that you can bring to life in the mastering stage.

If you want, you can send me one of the tracks and I'll show you an example of it.
Click to expand...

Exactly! That's what I mean: presence. I wasn't sure if this is something I should leave to the mastering stage since everybody's talking and writing about finishing as much as possible during the mixing. I'll leave you a PM.

Anybody else tips on adding more presence to tracks? I think catchiness might play a big role here as well.
 
Your 2nd track: Pluck doesn't cut through. Considering this is whats driving it you need make it pop out more... saturation and take off all the lows which compete with bass also it needs short stereo delay to spread wider. Your bass and kick sound like they're filtered low pass which dulls them down. If you listen to the comparison track, he's not doing that. You need more punch to your kick and a bass that isn't so sub-heavy. Also your hats are in one pan position, I would run them through an auto panner to spread them from L to R also they're quite dull too. There's a percussion track thats at the same rhythm as the lead (pluck), its panned in the same position , spread that too otherwise it competes with the lead.

Most people who write this music doubt themselves, if they didn't they wouldn't get anywhere. Its perfectly natural. Also bear in mind you've listened to the track far more than we have so its not so fresh to your ears. The main problem I hear in track 2 is mixing...not enough track isolation.
 
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@Kinh:

I partly agree with you and funny thing about that second track is that I intentionally cut away the whole attack of the kick and lowpassed all the hats and percs, just to see what happens. When I compared it to an earlier version of that track I totally found that all the highs and sharp transients didn't only mismatch the vibes I was aiming at but actually really working against them cause I found the punchy version of the loop extremely distracting and too much in the foreground. Pretty much all drum loops I create are too snappy and crisp in my opinion, my last few tracks are really an exception. However you're probably right and I took it a bit too far with the unpunchiness but I know many tracks where you can't even distinguish the kick from the bass and the hats from strings (exaggerated) because of their slow attack times and the tracks still works perfectly well.

This actually leads me to another question: In most, if not all of the deep/ tech I currently listen to there are large parts of the song with just the drums + very few elements playing, and it doesn't sound boring (example of what I mean at 1:50: https://soundcloud.com/thump/eleven-original-mix).
This is a riddle to me, if I solo one of my drum loops (even if I spent hours on it and it sounds great) together with a bass and some sfx it sounds boring as shit and the drums sound way too distracting rather than like and own instrument..

However I played around with some tape saturation plugins in the last week and it indeed got me a bit closer to the sound I have in my head: https://soundcloud.com/tiyotsu/low-test/s-zrcH5 (ignore the weird stop at around 1:30, I added vocals to the track but they don't sit well in the mix yet so I muted them for the time being).
 
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I only listened to the first track and it's comparison. I'll have to say the reference track has a better rhythm and mix. Your soundscape is pretty much similar though and that's the strong part. Try taking rhythmic loops or samples you normally wouldn't mess around with, and "flip" them into your style. It'll give more originality and "soul" if you can pull it off right. Remember good music is not made of good technicality, it's made of good *composition*. A lot of people forget that with all the pretty plugs and techniques we have now-a-days. If you can master both the technicality and composition, you're golden.
 
Sosan said:
I only listened to the first track and it's comparison. I'll have to say the reference track has a better rhythm and mix. Your soundscape is pretty much similar though and that's the strong part. Try taking rhythmic loops or samples you normally wouldn't mess around with, and "flip" them into your style. It'll give more originality and "soul" if you can pull it off right. Remember good music is not made of good technicality, it's made of good *composition*. A lot of people forget that with all the pretty plugs and techniques we have now-a-days. If you can master both the technicality and composition, you're golden.
Click to expand...

Hey mate, just re-read your post as I was revisiting the thread and I gotta say you nailed it (along with some other people that posted earlier but I wasn't ready to fully embrace it). I was looking for mistakes in my general production without realising that the issues really were 90% about my drums and not about the general soundscape.
So I read a lot of stuff and articles to improve my drums lately but the most important thing is, I finally bought a decent pair of beginner monitors (JBL LSR 305, great stuff) to replace my more expensive but trendy computer speakers. What can I say, at first I didn't really found many issues about my former mixing but after just 'blindly' reworking my stuff and then comparing A to B I'm blown away. I instinctively swapped samples and adjusted all my EQ and stuff, I'm totally satisfied with my sound now and feel ready to move on to the next lesson.

Thanks again to everybody for contributing and feel free to compare my old vs new mixed tracks (A is old, B is new): https://soundcloud.com/tiyotsu/sets/comparison/s-n2sag
 
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