pro mp3 vs. my mp3

harlley

harlley

Beware of the blipvert!
Hi, folks!

I've noted that when I encode my beat to mp3 at, say, 160kbps, there's a huge distortion on high freqs. I know it already, since mp3 tend to distort these freqs. But if I encode a comercial CD song to mp3 at the same bitrate, these distortions doesn't occur or, at least, occurs less than mine.

This leads to another question: I've read somewhere that commercial music have some EQ roll off at high freqs, say, 17000hz and above. So, the mp3 distortion isn't so perceptible.

So: is there a hi freq cut in commercial music (I say as some kind of "standard")?
 
mp3 encoding is a nightmare.

not only are there the different rates i.e. 128-320 Kbits etc but also there are quality options for how long you want your PC to take to encode the data too.

Many of the filters that are included with encoders to roll off everything over 17-19kHz are just there to remove a chunk of data that only dogs can really hear - this is done to allow smaller files to be created because data isn't then wasted encoding the frequencies that the average speaker can't reproduce.

I use winlame to encode my mp3s coz it has the most quality control options and gives the best results that i've found. and it's free :)

http://winlame.sourceforge.net/

I do sometimes end up producing to final mixes - one for mp3 and one for CD. The top end of the spectrum requires attention to stop the open hihats sounding like ****.

MM
 
Messyman,

Yes, mp3 is a pain in the b*tt but this a standard media format, I we must deal with it in these internet times. Mabye ogg vorbis could be an interesting option (but I know it's a lossy format too)

I have winlame installed on my computer, but I prefer to use the original lame encoder with a frontend called blade lame, or even using CDEX as well (very good). That programs gives me full control over obscure parameters, while winlame doesn't. However I'd avoid the blade enc, because the distortion at high freqs is ridiculous, and lame doesn't distort so much.

But, what about commercial music? Does it has this "high cut", or this is only an effect of mp3 encoding?
 
Which features winLAME won't let you set exactly? Didn't know this. The encoder itself is exactly the same in the "original" and winLAME, btw.
 
krushing said:
Which features winLAME won't let you set exactly? Didn't know this. The encoder itself is exactly the same in the "original" and winLAME, btw.
Click to expand...

In truth I haven't messed with it too much. I'm very used to razorlame, and so I'm stuck with it. In winlame, there's tons of presets, and don't like this presets idea. I do prefer to make my adjustments from scratch, but I know it's the same encoder. And I don't like that "wizard type" interface as well.

It's only a matter of choosing. :)
 
harlley said:
Hi, folks!

I've noted that when I encode my beat to mp3 at, say, 160kbps, there's a huge distortion on high freqs. I know it already, since mp3 tend to distort these freqs. But if I encode a comercial CD song to mp3 at the same bitrate, these distortions doesn't occur or, at least, occurs less than mine.

This leads to another question: I've read somewhere that commercial music have some EQ roll off at high freqs, say, 17000hz and above. So, the mp3 distortion isn't so perceptible.

So: is there a hi freq cut in commercial music (I say as some kind of "standard")?
Click to expand...


that is wicked fukkin interesting....and ive never heard that before. to be honest i didnt even know there were so many options that could affect and mp3..... and a hi-end cut? never heard of that either, but its interesting....

so when we all post all these tracks on soundclick or whatever, are some of us using certain encoders that maybe DONT sound like crap? i use soundforge and it scares me how bad mp3s sound when downloaded. please clue my dumb-ass in......


peace.
 
highkoo said:



i use soundforge and it scares me how bad mp3s sound when downloaded. please clue my dumb-ass in......


peace.
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I've used the encoders in CDEX, DBpoweramp, SoundForge etc, Wavelab and many more. All encoders are not created equal. Try the encoder i left the link to above - winLAME. It allows greater control over how your mp3 is created, not only in setting the bitrate itself but the sampling frequency, stereo options, quality (i.e. slower encoding gives a higher quality file)and filtering etc.

MM
 
highkoo said:



that is wicked fukkin interesting....and ive never heard that before. to be honest i didnt even know there were so many options that could affect and mp3..... and a hi-end cut? never heard of that either, but its interesting....

so when we all post all these tracks on soundclick or whatever, are some of us using certain encoders that maybe DONT sound like crap? i use soundforge and it scares me how bad mp3s sound when downloaded. please clue my dumb-ass in......


peace.
Click to expand...

highkoo,

Is fact that some encoders are best than others. The 3 more famous are: "FRAUHOFER" that's the official (original?) mp3 encoder, the LAME encoder that's free and high quality and the BLADE ENC, that's really crap. The hi freq distortion are more or less imperceptible, being the FRAUNHOFER the best. But LAME has a high quality encoding algorithm, and it's free. BLADE has the less quality, shown a huge distortion in high freqs like hihats, cymbals, crashes, and whatever. I use CDEX too, and the built in LAME encoder is very good.

To a more quality encoding, is best to use OGG VORBIS, that's really good at hi freqs (the distortion isn't perceptible at all). But, you know, mp3 isn't the best, but it's standard. I'd suggest you use CDEX or WINLAME like messyman did, at a 160kbps rate or more.
Intersting fact: if you encode at a high bitrate but mono, you came with a relatively smaller file. If I'm correct, a 192kbps mono file is the same size as a 96kbps stereo file.

Finally, according to my read on another forum (www.em411.com), the guys are talking about this hi freq cut, about 18000 or 20000hz, so it's natural that commercial music doesn't shown so much distortion on this freq area. But I'm not sure about the truth in this affirmations.

cheers
 
Just for the record I would like to add that I, when encoding with dBpowerAMP, sometimes have gotten digital clipping introduced in the mp3 file. The original wave file was clip-free, but there was clipping introduced by the encoding.

The solution always is to simply let dBpowerAMP normalize the song file as it is encoding it. If you have a wave file with a very strong signal (that is basically constantly touching the 0dB mark) then I guess it is possible for the mp3 encoding to loose some resolution and introduce clipping. This clipping can sometimes be very constant, thus sounding like constant hi-freq distortion.

One easy way to check that is to simply lower the pre-fader slightly in winamp's equalizer, and see if the distortion goes away.
 
wow.cool. thats some sh1t i really had no idea about. ive heard of the 'frauhoffer' or whatever its called but never really considered that there would be so many options. thanks for the tips guys. im definitely gonna have a look for something a little better. cuz ive also heard that SF is not good for mp3s. and i myself have had it turn out totally corrupt mp3s on rare occasion. which isnt a good sign overall i guess.

ima investigate.


peace.
 
Trance.Allstar said:
Just for the record I would like to add that I, when encoding with dBpowerAMP, sometimes have gotten digital clipping introduced in the mp3 file. The original wave file was clip-free, but there was clipping introduced by the encoding.

The solution always is to simply let dBpowerAMP normalize the song file as it is encoding it. If you have a wave file with a very strong signal (that is basically constantly touching the 0dB mark) then I guess it is possible for the mp3 encoding to loose some resolution and introduce clipping. This clipping can sometimes be very constant, thus sounding like constant hi-freq distortion.

One easy way to check that is to simply lower the pre-fader slightly in winamp's equalizer, and see if the distortion goes away.
Click to expand...

http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/
The BEST!

btw, an interesting fact: 2 songs I know have a lot of distortion when in mp3 format (128kbps):

Depeche Mode - Just Can't Get Enough
DHS - House of God

I don't know if it's a problem with the mastering process of this songs or the encoder itself...
 
harlley said:


In truth I haven't messed with it too much. I'm very used to razorlame, and so I'm stuck with it. In winlame, there's tons of presets, and don't like this presets idea. I do prefer to make my adjustments from scratch, but I know it's the same encoder. And I don't like that "wizard type" interface as well.

It's only a matter of choosing. :)
Click to expand...

I just tend to ignore the presets...if you select the "default" setting instead of any of the presets, it'll let you access all the options. The name "default" is a bit misleading though...I also thought it's just a bunch of presets.
 
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