playing random chords on the piano

[DJ Birdbath]

i also used to think how knowing theory won't improve my beats quality...but i was wrong,the truth is,i was just too lazy to read books about it and practice all those things...

Everytime I hear/read somebody say, "Chords/Notes/Theory/Etc. aren't necessary", the first thing I think of is 'This person is just tryiing to justify their lack of knowledge (which is stupid), and this person is LAZY.'


If you love and respect music you should invest time in it and learn as much about it as you can.

 

[PsiTech]

this place is pretty nice btw: http://chordmaps.com/chartmaps.htm

just get it printed and put it on the wall in front of the keyboard.. piece of cake

 

[LostProfit]

that is not randomly hitting keys... if you have something in your head, then you are writing music.

That is very different from randomly hitting keys and hoping for an accident that sounds good.


Notation and theory have absolutely nothing to do with it.

call me crazy but I beleive in higher vibrations.

just because u have something in your head dosent mean you are "writing" it.

sometimes music writes itself...u play something...it sounds good...u keep it

im not talking about just sittin there and bashing random keys..obviously if u do that its gonna sound like ****, so dont get smart.

I dont think I did contradict myself (thanks though No_Worries for nit-picking)

I still adhere to my original point...you dont have to be classically trained to make good music. How do u think people had music before "theory"

real theory is in your mind...you either know what will sound right

or you dont

 

[dvyce]

call me crazy but I beleive in higher vibrations.

just because u have something in your head dosent mean you are "writing" it.

sometimes music writes itself...u play something...it sounds good...u keep it

im not talking about just sittin there and bashing random keys..obviously if u do that its gonna sound like ****, so dont get smart.

I dont think I did contradict myself (thanks though No_Worries for nit-picking)

I still adhere to my original point...you dont have to be classically trained to make good music. How do u think people had music before "theory"

real theory is in your mind...you either know what will sound right

or you dont

i am not sure what your point is here.

i NEVER said anything about needing to be classically trained to make good music. I NEVER said anything about even needing to formally be trained at all in any way to make good music. In fact I actually specifically said:

you do not have to know any "formal music theory"

 

[LostProfit]

Everytime I hear/read somebody say, "Chords/Notes/Theory/Etc. aren't necessary", the first thing I think of is 'This person is just tryiing to justify their lack of knowledge (which is stupid), and this person is LAZY.'


If you love and respect music you should invest time in it and learn as much about it as you can.

lack of knowledge is stupid...thats a pretty true point.

but you listen to outerspace

what chords do they or their producers know? none probably

(thats rhetorical incase someone wants to tell me "well actually...")

A lot of music is based on rhythmic elements and tonal characteristics rather than "notes/chords/theory."

 

[Chuckie Busa]

i find it hard to see how its possible to truely be random whilst hitting keys

you would first have to bypass your brain to start with..

because no matter how you twist it, you are still making a decision to press a key and what key to press, how is that random?

so then its just pressing keys and not really knowing what they do.. then using your brain to find something that you like - trial & error, a good thing IMO, and a really good way to learn and to explore things.. and personally, trial and error has been my way since i started, not because i'm lazy or anything, but because its fun..

and i would say that, without trial and error, im pretty certain you could say goodbye to lots of knowctuledge and work from great artists..

so the threadstarter is basically doing what many artists have done since the beginning..

dont get me wrong though, if you know how to play the melodies i your head, it will save you alot of time but knowing music theory still isnt a guaranteed way to be able to make "good" music.. it still comes down to your mind and the choices you do towards a finished piece of music..

and thats what matters IMO. the music, not how it was done.. those details has nothing to do with the actual music..

also.. what's music is subjective.. no one can say this or that is less music than the other, and truly be right.. only in his own view

if you try to be objective about it, a sound is just vibrations.. therefore anyone causing sounds can be a musician.. so if someone for some reason likes the sounds of a dog farting, and its music to his ears.. then basically that dog is a musician

BUT... yeah!, i have my own hangups on what's music and whats a musician... for example 99% of what i hear on the popular radio stations these days.. isnt music to me, its just audio products.. like the audio answer to mac donalds heheh..

just make music and be proud if you get good results..

my 2cents, now time for another rum drink

I agree with you but isn't better when you are hitting random keys within a known scale than just hitting random keys. I mean when you are being creative hitting random keys is pretty much a given, you are in search of something. I mean I am much more comfortable and confident now then when I did not know any theory. Even in hip hop and sampling you still should know which scales and chords fit where. Thet way you know what fits with what when sequencing.

 

[PsiTech]

I agree with you but isn't better when you are hitting random keys within a known scale than just hitting random keys. I mean when you are being creative hitting random keys is pretty much a given, you are in search of something. I mean I am much more comfortable and confident now then when I did not know any theory. Even in hip hop and sampling you still should know which scales and chords fit where. Thet way you know what fits with what when sequencing.

i kind of agree, but i cant say that i know any theory, or the names of the different chords... i havent have any need for it... when i looked at a keyboard for the first time.. (first time after starting to make music that is) i had no knowledge of what keys will sound good together, but after some time experimenting with trial and error (or "random" if you really like to call it that) some patterns started to become more clear... really like trying to crack a code where the right code comes in many versions..

so now its alot easier to take chords, but i still dont even know the name of the keys... i learned where C is, but only because i was making some samplepacks..

so that knowledge only needs words if you plan to talk about it with others, like if you're in a band for example... it simply saves time..

but as a one man band or some guy in a studio, its not necessary.. IMO, you can still make music as good as some one who learned some theory


someone said "if you love music, you want to know everything about it" or something like that..

if you love music... you love, it simple as that.. loving something doesnt mean you need to dissect it... dissecting something doesnt mean you love it more, it only means you have some need to be able to describe certain things..

i'll stop now, as i feel my english isnt good enough for me to be able to better explain what i mean

 

[LostProfit]

that is not randomly hitting keys... if you have something in your head, then you are writing music.

That is very different from randomly hitting keys and hoping for an accident that sounds good.


Notation and theory have absolutely nothing to do with it.

my point is...you dont have to write something for it to be good

coincidence can work in music

thats my point^^^^^^THERE

whats yours?

 

[BuildingBlocks]

Well done to everyone, except a few, for total misinterpretation.

When I say "hitting random keys", Im not talking about how some domestic animal would walk over a piano with no knowledge of what was going on. Some of you guys are really dumb.
Lets say a person is sitting with his keyboard. Now, the person may have a melody on his head or not. Now this person does not have ANY music theory, has no idea about chord progression etc. He/she then starts randomly pressing keys until he/she hears something she likes. If asked what chords/progressions or whatever they are composing they wouldnt be able to tell you. That's the "pressing random keys" that I am talking about.
Unless you are a moron, it is clear to see that only rythm and a creative state of mind is needed for this. NO musical theory at all.
ROFL@ some of the stupid replies

 

[LostProfit]

Well done to everyone, except a few, for total misinterpretation.

When I say "hitting random keys", Im not talking about how some domestic animal would walk over a piano with no knowledge of what was going on. Some of you guys are really dumb.
Lets say a person is sitting with his keyboard. Now, the person may have a melody on his head or not. Now this person does not have ANY music theory, has no idea about chord progression etc. He/she then starts randomly pressing keys until he/she hears something she likes. If asked what chords/progressions or whatever they are composing they wouldnt be able to tell you. That's the "pressing random keys" that I am talking about.
Unless you are a moron, it is clear to see that only rythm and a creative state of mind is needed for this. NO musical theory at all.
ROFL@ some of the stupid replies

well said

 

[dvyce]

my point is...you dont have to write something for it to be good

coincidence can work in music

thats my point^^^^^^THERE

whats yours?

My point is:

Although coincidence can work in music, or you may accidentally come up with something that sounds good...

If that is what you rely on to make your music... If that is how you come up with music, you can not really call yourself a "producer" or "writer" or anything like that.

To be a producer/writer/composer (or whatever you want to call it) you need to be able to be able to make music with consistency.


If you cannot sit down and intentionally make songs over and over that are of the same quality, then you are not a producer/writer/composer...


What you ARE is "a guy who made a track"

...and there are plenty of those around.


But if you want to be a real producer then you need to be able to make music for real. If someone comes to you wanting a track from you because they like "that other song you did", then you'd better be able to give them a track of that style which is up to that standard of quality of that "other track."






...and just to add a little something extra:

Anybody who says you need "music theory" to make music has no understanding of what "music theory is.


Plus, you do not need any formal understanding of music...

and you do not need to know how to read or write music notation...


You can know all the "music theory" in the world but it does not mean you will be able to create even one song in your entire life...

...in the same way that knowing all the words in the dictionary and all the rules of grammar will not make you able to write a book.



You do not by any meand need any formal understanding of "music theory" to have an understanding of how music works and how to make music creatively.



Oh, and one more thing:

"rhythmic elements and tonal characteristics" do relate to music theory just as much as anything else.

thats my point^^^^^^THERE

whats yours?

and I was saying that I wasn't sure what your point was because you were quoting me and responding saying "you dont have to be classically trained to make good music" when I never in my entire life said that a person had to be classically trained to make good music... In fact, not only do I think that being classically trained has no bearing on whether someone can make good music, but I have also even said that in this thread.

 

[JDeuce]

i started with fummbling on the keys and over time I found cords which developed into an ear for what I like to play which developed into the sound I have now -- my site has some examples of what you can accomplish by just figuring out what your ear likes, and no pro training needed.

 

[LostProfit]

My point is:

Although coincidence can work in music, or you may accidentally come up with something that sounds good...

If that is what you rely on to make your music... If that is how you come up with music, you can not really call yourself a "producer" or "writer" or anything like that.

I have to disagree with that.

but I supose its the way you look at it...

If you see music as a science then what you're saying would be right but I see music as an artform.

Iconsider people like Picasso or Matisee...they clearly had some knowlege of which colours would work with which and how to use shape and whatever but they dont decide with scientifical accuracy where each pigment of paint goes...some things just come together in a big, creative, coheisive presentation of thought and feeling.

Do you see what im sayin at all?

Music theory is needed...as in knowledge of music...knowing what will or wont work but as long as you have that I dont think its necessary to be able to play or read notation from sheet music.

Is it not about the outcome in the end? thats the role of a producer...to present musical ideas as a complete, saleable package that can be ascociated with a certain "sound" or "niche" or "edge" that only that producer can provide...I dont think it matters how you get there.

 

[dvyce]

I have to disagree with that.

but I supose its the way you look at it...

It looks like you didn't even read my post beyond the small part you conveniently took out of context... or if you did read the whole thing, then you certainly didn't understand what I was saying.

If you see music as a science then what you're saying would be right but I see music as an artform.

I can't even begin to imagine where you would get that from my post.

Iconsider people like Picasso or Matisee...they clearly had some knowlege of which colours would work with which and how to use shape and whatever but they dont decide with scientifical accuracy where each pigment of paint goes...some things just come together in a big, creative, coheisive presentation of thought and feeling.

Aside from it seeming that you don't know much about the history of Picasso and Matisse (who were good friends, by the way)-- they both started their careers by painting in traditional styles before Picasso went cubist and Matisse was bedridden and was forced to do his blocky cutout art...

Once again I don't see how this relates to anything I said... I never said anything resembling "scientific accuracy" or music not being about "creativity", "thought" and "feeling"

In fact, I DID say that it is all about "creativity", "thought" and "feeling"... which is why "hitting random keys until you come up with something" is not "creatively" coming from your "thought" and done with personal "feeling"

Do you see what im sayin at all?

I don't think you see what I am saying at all.

Music theory is needed...as in knowledge of music...knowing what will or wont work but as long as you have that I dont think its necessary to be able to play or read notation from sheet music.

I don't think any "music theory" is needed.

I do not think you need to read or write notation at all.


You just need to understand music, and that can come from anywhere... it is just something within you.

Is it not about the outcome in the end? thats the role of a producer...to present musical ideas as a complete, saleable package that can be ascociated with a certain "sound" or "niche" or "edge" that only that producer can provide...I dont think it matters how you get there.

You need to read my posts again.

Your post is not really relating to what I said anywhere.


If you expect to have "a certain "sound" or "niche" or "edge" that only that producer can provide"

...well, it needs to come from you creatively... not by waiting to stumble across something...

It does not matter how you get there...

...but you have to be able to get to that same place again and again with consistency.

 

[LostProfit]

...but you have to be able to get to that same place again and again with consistency.

I see what you're saying but you dont have to be so arrogant about it do you?

Okay, you know some fun facts about Picasso...well done...im more into banksy myself.

but small talk aside, The way that comment related to what you said was pretty obvious to me...but I wont be petty and try to question
your intelligence over that.

You just need to understand music, and that can come from anywhere... it is just something within you.

what do you mean by something within you? I thought you needed to be consistent

so what if you dont feel like making music...then all your theory goes out the window then....so are you are no longer a producer at that second in time?

consistency dosent mean **** really without comparison.

Good music could be made by randomly hitting keys..you cant really say othewise.

 

[jwilliams]

WOW.

Anybody ever heard of an accidental. I learned that from a cat when I first started playing. He told me that this is when you play something you didnt intend to play but it sounds good. I have found ssssssoooooooooo many variations of variations with this.

Ultimately, people dont like what they dont understand.

There has always been a seperation/group structure with everything and each group needs to feel like they are the best. In turn we get what we started with, seperation/group structure.

In dreamland, we would embrace our differences, sharpen each other, make music for producers/consumers to enjoy, and so on.

Still, Im optimistic. I must say Im impressed. I get about 18 hours a day to grind it out and make the best use of my time as I never want to want. I want to learn how to keep up a lot of BS and still be productive; not to BS, but I could use the extra time.

Can anybody help me with this?

 

[No_Worries]

Anybody ever heard of an accidental. I learned that from a cat when I first started playing. He told me that this is when you play something you didnt intend to play but it sounds good. I have found ssssssoooooooooo many variations of variations with this.

No offense to you, but your friend is either misinformed or retarded if he thinks that's what an accidental is.

 

[LostProfit]

WOW.

Anybody ever heard of an accidental. I learned that from a cat when I first started playing. He told me that this is when you play something you didnt intend to play but it sounds good. I have found ssssssoooooooooo many variations of variations with this.

Ultimately, people dont like what they dont understand.

There has always been a seperation/group structure with everything and each group needs to feel like they are the best. In turn we get what we started with, seperation/group structure.

In dreamland, we would embrace our differences, sharpen each other, make music for producers/consumers to enjoy, and so on.

Still, Im optimistic. I must say Im impressed. I get about 18 hours a day to grind it out and make the best use of my time as I never want to want. I want to learn how to keep up a lot of BS and still be productive; not to BS, but I could use the extra time.

Can anybody help me with this?

First let me say, you seem to know your ****...I felt like I was on my own for a while there so thanks.


As far as time management goes im not an expert but I'd say it depends what the BS is...I try to make my routine streamlined but also free...not too forced...because sometimes its the BS that indirectly makes the music.

I shouldve checked your music before i made this post but **** it I will now, peace.

 

[jwilliams]

No offense to you, but your friend is either misinformed or retarded if he thinks that's what an accidental is.

Thanks. I think this is why perception is so powerful.

Lost Profit Im with ya. Im not the type to get upset about small stuff. Im about rebuilding ish. The only way to do that is with unity.

My point is we have a forum designed to "inform" "future producers" but a lot of time is spent fighting each other. Of course Im not naive enough to think you can gather mostly men and have no issues, but some of this stuff is off the charts; blows me everyday. Think of how this "forum" for "future producers" could be if we were here to "produce" and not fight. WTF.

I know, I know, but you can save it. A lot of people could be learning and being productive if the same energy was focused on being productive, no two ways about it.

Life is so much bigger than we see.

Im with ya tho.

Even if I had the time, I couldn't spend it fighting.

Thanks for the love too...

 

[PsiTech]

^^well put jwilliams!!