*Painting A Picture* - Music In Your Head.

K

KnockOut

Guest
NOTE: I'm creating this topic for TWO REASONS. First, I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say... and SECONDLY, I'm going to use what we compile for my website. *Now before you think I'm 'plotting' a way to steal ideas or thoughts, understand that there isn't going to be ideas or thoughts to steal. These are personal feelings WE have as musicians, and I'm ONLY putting this topic on my site, (simply copying and pasting the text,) - because I never see topics like this created, and it's the aspect of music I love to discuss. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO HAVE YOUR REPLY ON MY SITE, either say so in your post, or don't post at all. Again, I'm not trying to 'pull a fast one' here, because there isn't a 'fast one' to pull. There's nothing I'd be copying and pasting that's benefiting me or my site in anyway. I'm just trying to create a document/page that's an aspect of music I'm curious about, and I seldomly hear discussed. Now what the hell is the topic??
*MUSIC IN YOUR HEAD*

- I'm a decent writer. I'm a musician. I'm 20 years old and I've been producing 'hip hop' instrumentals since I was 13. (I still think the term "hip hop beats" sounds corny for some reason lol. When you call yourself a "hip hop producer," it makes you sound like the other 100 billion people on the planet who give themself the same title and half the time can't produce at all! This is why I refer to myself as a musician. A lot of times you'll tell somebody that you make music, and thier reply will be, "what kind?" When you respond, "hip hop/rap beats," - people who aren't a fan of the genre tend to think of less of your talents. Already they downplay your ability to make music because for some reason, rap is stereotipically portrayed as "not real music." (We all know we've heard it lol.) But this topic is beyond rap, because not everybody at this message board produces rap music. I was just stating that I do, and my reasons are just. A hip hop beat can be ANYTHING, and this is what draws me to exclusively make rap oriented instrumentals. Composing a symphony usually incorperates your violens, cellos, snare drums, bass drums, flutes, pianos, etc... a lot of instruments, but rarely anything you'd want, because an electric guitar doesn't fit the tipical classical music standard. A rap beat on the other hand, can be synths, (which aren't even instruments to begin with!) - on top of several different instruments most composers would never dream of incorperating. For example - I've made a bagpipe beat with electric guitars and bells. (I'm not implying that this is the wildest combination of all time, but you see what I'm getting at it.)

- Anyway. I was in band in 5th grade playing percussion, stuck with it until 8th grade, got diagnosed with cancer - could no longer go to school or play in band - took it upon myself to learn various instruments, and the rest is history. (Not looking for pitty, just giving you some backround on the origins of my ambitions to make music in the first place.) I've always felt like I was a curious kid, and a deep thinker. I guess you could even say an 'over-analyzer,' - because as a producer, I'm constantly listening to people rap and sing, and I'm a perfectionist. (In my opinion, a synonym FOR producer IS perfectionist.) If you spit a hot line and the syllables don't fit, change it up. If you have a good voice but a note you hit wasn't just the right pitch, it's time for another take. I'm sure a ton of people are relating to this.

- Back to my 'childhood deep thinking,' and its relation to my music. This is where the topic for me gets harder to word and explain.

+ I use a term constantly called "classic melody," - and I'm sure other people do too. But do other people use it the way I do?? Sometimes I hear a melody, (or sometimes even a sound,) that for some strange reason just sounds familiar to me... even if I've never heard the song before. I notice this feeling mostly when I'm listening to classic music - and the only way I can descibe it is strange. It's never a whole entire song, usually just a fragment - but it happens every so often and it's mind boggling. How can I hear a melody for the first time and mentally have like, a connection to it?? I have no clue, but what I do know is that music is seriously a feeling. Have you ever heard a song that gives you goosebumps?? It's good music man... and good music exists, (just like BAD music exists lol.) Hopefully some of you are saying, "holy ****, I know what this kid is talking about, the same thing happens to me sometimes!" Not the goosebumps, but the "classic melodies" I was refering to. With this said, I just want artists out there to realize that it should never take 10 albums to get yourself noticed or 'create a hit.' If your music is goosebump material, it'll get itself noticed - and the chances are good that you are one of the few people who's naturally blessed with the ability to make that "classic" music. (Again, not classic in terms of Bach compositions, but 'classic' in terms of that music that gives people a real feeling inside.) Sounds corny, and girly, but **** it - it's what I felt like discussing with everybody.

- What feelings do you get? I can tell you right now that if you don't have natural feelings when creating your ****, you're most likely forcing creativity and the end result is NEVER good music. Look at all the generic club songs you hear in the rap game right now, (or for that matter, the sobby alternative music about your girlfriend leaving you...) - the TRUE catchy-ness to these 'hits' that are played on the radio over and over again is the music behind it!! It's the beat that's catchy, or the guitar riff... (and ok, I'll admit it: occasionally the choruses,) - but you see what I'm saying. When the catchy-ness IS in the choruses, I respect that, because whoever wrote the chorus has that natural mental spark I'm refering to.

- Now. When I create my beats, I'll usually start with a basic piano key and fondle with a melody. This is where our replies get personal, - because fondling to me isn't playing with the melody until it 'makes sense.' Fondling to me is playing with the melody until I create what's going on in my head, and BECAUSE A MELODY USUALLY JUST NATURALLY COMES TO ME, I never really even NEED to fondle!! (Read that again lol, it makes sense.) I'll start to play something, and the ending of it just comes to me instantly... not because "it'll work," but because it's what I can just feel would be the perfect ending. It's wierd, but I know somebody can relate. Basically, I'm never just experimenting - because when you have that ability to know what sounds good, it's already there. Am I implying that I'm more talented than the next musician? Hell no. I think you can base just off this topic that I'm not ignorant, and that I seriously don't think I'm superior to anybody. I just firmly believe that when the music's in you, it's in you.

- Same goes for sounds. Sometimes I'll use a sound that I feel NO OTHER SOUND IN THE WORLD could pull off as perfectly. It's wierd. Kanye West once said that he can SEE his music in his head - and whether he meant it litterally or not - I kind of know what he means. I don't mentally paint a picture, (or SEE anything,) - but the best fit for the sound or melody just kind of comes to me in an instant spark. I originally had a ton more written in this topic, but when I tried to post - I was logged out. I logged in, and I was no longer on the "create topic" page where I'm typing now. It's BS, but whatever, I'll just sum it up now.

- How does music come to you. DOES music come to you?? If you find yourself playing with a melody until it "works," than the chances are good that you're forcing it. If it comes naturally, than the end result is usually something you feel like you could show ANYBODY - and anybody would think what you thought upon making it. (It's sounds good, and makes sense...) I'm looking forward to some intelligent responses, but to those of you who feel "too cool" or "too busy" to type a lot, I'm looking foward to your contribution as well. You can clearly see that there's nothing I can steal here. It's personal ****, and personal responses that I can't use to benefit myself in anyway. I can't take somebody else's music making method and "try it out" lol, it doesn't work that way. I just hope you don't read what I typed above and make no sense of it what-so-ever. I'm sure some of you out there will understand.
 
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I never ponder over music, i just make it. Interesting what uve said. I usually get butterflies or "high" when i hear some really good music. Rap is cool for the party and just to chill and dance. But I also wanna hear some beautiful chord changes and key modulation, Tone colors, Interesting rythyms, etc and Rap/hip hop doesnt offer that.
 
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whats up, man? i have to admit this is the best thread ive read in a long time. i dont usually post, but i had to reply to this one. i most definately get goosebumps when i hear great music. not only hip-hop, but every kind of music. as a musician and hip-hop producer, i feel like u have to believe that there is no such thing as genre. its all music. i cant believe theres actually someone here on the same page as me. i mean, im 17. alot of people always ask me, "why are you so quiet?" i tell them i think alot more than i speak. im very analytical. i do belive that your born with music in your blood. ive been into music my whole life! at one point i wanted to be a rapper, then a guitarist, then a bassist, and now im producing. i feel like all those phases brought me to my conclusion as a producer. i dont think i could be anything else in life BUT a musician. but as far as how i start off. i have a partial melody in my head. its usually pretty simple chord progression. then ill play it over and over until i get an elaborate melody. sometimes if it fits right, ill use the simple version for the verses and the detailed version for the hook. but most of the time it just comes to me. and ive grown to not even be able to force my music. either it comes to me or it doesnt. if it doesnt, i get on here and get educated. i really do feel u though. not alot of people operate like us. i wish more people would look at music as just music, and use it to free themselves. regardless of the "genre." its much more than jus sounds...keep doin what u do. much respect!
 
In response...

theFNbiz said:
alot of people always ask me, "why are you so quiet?" i tell them i think alot more than i speak. im very analytical.
Click to expand...

- What I quoted above is without a doubt one of the most interesting things I read in your reply... It has nothing to do with the topic, (what I quoted, NOT your whole reply lol,) - but that's extremely similar to me man. I'm not saying that every producer who walks the planet is shy and quiet, but I TOO HAVE SAID that I "think more than I speak..."

Brainstorming constantly, (even about the most insignificant of things,) contributes to creativity, IMO. I think that some people are entirely born with a music ability, (to the extent that they can play a certain instrument without ever really practicing better than those who practice for years...) - others have a tremendous music talent that overtime, can flourish and be polished when worked on - and some people have no sense of rythm what-so-ever and even with a ton a practice, the most they'll ever be able to accomplish is memorizing/learning pre-written music. (For example: they might not ever be able to truley create a song on a piano from scratch, but similar to memorizing anything - they can practice sheet music until they have it down 100%.) Again, just my thoughts...
 
music is within and all around you

yeah im with you all here... the way i look at making music is its my way of expressing myself to the world... i just dont heard music i feel it to a level sometimes were i actual feel i am part of it..... On some level this conection is because the music that i am listening to is helping me feel at one with the world.
the problem with the music industry now is people are making music for the wrong reasons and have no conection with it at all...they are just following formulas and creating what has come before.
true genuis is experimenting really........ playing chords that you actually feel and as said in orginal post.... true music just comes to you:)
 
Yo this gotta be one of the most interesting threads i've come across on these forums!

I feel exactly what you guys are saying! I always get a wierd feeling when it comes to music! Every piece of music has its own colour, and texture, its hard to explain, but its like i can feel it and visualise! I aint had no musical trainin, i bin makin music for 2 years now and i never ever force the music, i generally know how to achieve whats in my head straight away, i never have to figure out my beat, which i know is what alot of people do! I aint got much to add but i definatly feel your thread man, music definatly has a feeling!

Peace Breaks
 
*Hey, I'm not a mission to promote the sh*t out of myself or anything of the sort, but if you think this thread is an interesting read, check out my interview at www.SoundSharp.com. I'm in the 'artist spotlight' section, (Knock Out Your Producer...) - SoundSharp.com is an affiliate of mine and it's in the process of a big facelift right now. I'm only bringing up the interview I did because I covered a lot of ground on everything we're discussing.
 
I feel you on this subject. No, there's nothing girly about emotional music. It's actually very important for music to convey some sort of emotion or evoke images... 'fat', 'juicy' or 'sick' are words that do not describe the emotional element of a piece of music and are ignorant. Music definitely gives me goosebumps and I believe that my music is also very emotional. I don't think ppl should worry too much about their music sounding kitschy or cheesy - i personally haven't heard an overly sentimental song in a long time. Go for that emotion, go for that longer melody and f*ck anybody who says you're being self-indulgent. That's what making music is about; self-indulgence. I do music for me and other ppl will listen to it only if I like it.... Anyways, in terms of the music creation process, I started a thread about it a couple of weeks ago. There were some pretty interesting responses there, too:

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147692
 
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Hate to bump, but anybody else? Hundreds of "future producers" on this site, and only three or four replies?
 
You are bold and deep, and its cool you discussed this cause feel is apart of music too, not just style! I have never really learned an instrument, I dabble with key combos on the Synth, but I have no "classical" training. I feel the music, what ever feels right I find somehow on the keyboard or the Pattern sequencer (I use Reason 3). Most of the the time I'm right on with key combinations and progressions. It may sound a little braggy, but that's the biz. I think either you have an ear or you don't and I've heard some bad s*** from producers who think they're hot. That said, there are alot of producers, musicians who have great ideas who I look up to with mad creative skillz, and some who follow formulas, like said, and are lacking the creative spark to play with the formula.

I'm a grown man so I have no problem saying this; the only time I tear up is when I hear a song, the first couple times, that is technically perfect and musically, melodically genius and original to me, i.e. Several Steely Dan tracks and Stevie Wonder tracks, to name a couple groups. Not saying that I'd just break into tears in the middle of a Walmart when it comes on over the PA, it has to be a analytical moment, just me and the song, you digg? I am a believer in gifts of musical interpolation and mine is, I feel it. This may sound odd but for the sake of this personal thread I'll share. I'll be listening to a new track (could be a old song or new) and I'll hear something, maybe the hook or the Intro or the overall musical substance, and I'll get overwhelmed. It starts as a tingle at the bottom of my back and shoots up spreading out, up to my scalp, like my nerves are all firing at once! That's the physical side, the emotional side -- I get a overwhelming euphoric feeling, like the dude says, I feel high as hell. It only lasts a couple minutes, and it doesn't happen often with that intensity, but I'll know what I just heard is the S***. I get lesser like events when I hear tracks that are really catchy or are produced and mastered and mixed down well. like to the point you can't hear anything technically wrong with it. Maybe cause I appreciate the work and genius it takes to create something classic -- yeah it takes genius to come up wit the base, but then knowledge of everything else it takes to complete it kicks in. I hope to get there someday, long road, but I'm one of of those dudes who works 14 hours a day to come home and make beats of 6 hours; sleep is secondary. Been that way for years and years, don't plan on stopping.
 
*J Deuce - I appreciate you taking the time to write a well-thought reply. (Not implying that nobody else has,) - but this is an excellent example of the type of replies I was hoping to read. I'm glad you could look past your own "dignity," (the possibility of getting clowned for saying you've broken down in tears to certain songs,) - and wrote what you feel. I currently don't have a functioning computer due to mine ****ting the bed a couple weeks ago... and not being able to lay down new sh*t is killing me. Seriously. I had just gone into business with SoundSharp.com and started filtering through my library of instrumentals to market, when my computer 'popped' and never turned back on. Luckily, I had all of my newest work on cd - but I lost the ability to make new stuff for now - so I've been bummed lately. Thus the reason I'm using my spare time to discuss what I love and keep my head in the game.

+ Keep the posts comin'.
 
This thread is awsome! A really good read. And I too feel that "classic melody" sometimes.. It's like i've heard it somewhere before but I don't know... And I too seem to alot of times over analyze stuff. I think alot.. maby too much, probably why I worry all the time.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you a better reply but all I have to say is, i'm definitly feeling you.

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alright I have some more stuff to type lol. Well a melody ususally comes some what easy to me too, especially after hearing another person music.. I can easily form another melody to go along with the songs melody and compliment it and a lot of times, that's how I form my melodies.( Sorry if that didn't make sense and im pretty sure a lot of other people can do this as well). But ya I don't really "fondle" on my keyboard either to look for beats, I just "fondle" around to look for the right notes of the melody in my head and sometimes by accident I'll find other notes to go along with my melody by fondling.
 
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jnoobiam - I personally don't see any shame IN fondling... because anybody who tells you that they're hitting the correct notes for an unpracticed melody first try - is full of sh*t. Some fondling is neccessary - but like I stated in my first post - there's 2 different kinds of fondling.

- Fondling because the melody came to you, and you accidentally hit a wrong note.

- Or fondling because you're stuck... and you're just playing with notes until something makes sense.

The first type of fondling I mentioned right there is the fondling I think is fine. Again - nobody's going to play made up melodys PERFECT thier first try. The second type of fondling I mentioned isn't terrible either - but I look at it like 'forcing creativity.' Instead of feeling the music and letting the melody come to you; you're just trying other keys until you hit a few that make sense. Again, it's not the end of the world or by any means a "horrible way of making music," - I just personally try to steer clear of doing it. I feel like it's 'testing things out' as opposed to 'figuring things out' - and I definently like the way I worded that lol. That was a good summary of this reply I'm typing right now.
 
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Its been nearly a year since the last time I signed on to this site and this was the first thread I opened. The title pulled me in immediately. Thank you KnockOut.

I just got home from a 14 week tour in Iraq on Thurs, 6/29. I have lived in a world virtually without music for over 3 months. I'm almost happier to see my iPod then my family. I starting making music 6 years ago when I bought myself a Motif with the money I was trying to save for college. That was the best decision I ever made in my life.

I feel like I have done quite a bit of both types of fondling (thats sounds a lil wrong, LOL), and for the next couple of weeks I think that trend will continue. In the time I was gone I had so many rythms, melodies and arrangements going through my head that I could have done an entire album. I hope I'll be able recreate them musically.

The reason this thread grabbed my attention is because I have tought myself to see music. While I was away, I tried my best to remember all the ideas which I was creating mentally, but with all the other things I needed to concern myself with - that wasn't even an option. I created something like a legend that contained a list of symbols which would represent certain sounds. I thought that if I was able to at least write them down, then I could try to bring them to life once I got home.

Right now, those compositions are all that are on my mind and I am working on scanning my notes and uploading them into an Adobe document for others who may be in a similar situation to use in order to remember their musical ideas when they have no way of getting them out.

In these past 2 days I have been working diligently on actually getting out these ideas audibly and I really feel my system has really worked.

Although it was made clear that this thread was not intentionally made on the concept on seeing music visually, I felt like this was a great place to share my experience and my remedy.
________________________________________​

Now, to my personal feelings. I typically make down tempo music, not so much love songs or R&B (which I have done), but more commonly those dark, gloomy, DMX type productions (typically the kind of music which I enjoy). I am usually a person who draws on my own pain and heartache to create material. With that, I generally know where I'm heading before I begin, so I don't have the need to fondle with something until it comes together. However, I have done that before, but that was more common when I had first started and didn't have a particular formula of my own.

I will usually start with the melody, whether its a piano, organ, synth, etc..., then go right to the drums, usually an 808 or 909 kit. That's just my method. Thats how I have become accustom to making music that can be felt.

I know my post may be a little off topic, but I just found it was a very compelling subject and wanted to add my thoughts. I hope others can relate.
 
Not off topic at all - and you're a crazy bastard for visiting Iraq lol, thank God you made it back safely man. Life is nuts...

+ What I found interesting about your reply was the "type of music you enjoy," because I feel the same way. I never make uptempo ****... (not to slow either...) but usually 88-93bmp's full of pianos, strings, etc. The outcome is never "jumpoff," - because that's not me. I don't hate on anything - good music is good music; and although I think it's ideal to be well-rounded so you appeal to more people... it just doesn't work that way. I've made a few 'jumpoff' joints, but it's never when I sit down and drill into my head that it's my plan. It has to flow, and 90% of the time it just isn't that. Nothin' wrong with it. Good post.
 
you know sometimes it just makes sense-i don't have any formal music training besides a course that i had to take for school, but sometimes it just fits. from bangin out Luke beats on the auditorium chairs at school(just seemed that those chair backs made the perfect snare) to the infamous One In A Million beat at the lunch table; i must say that music is a large part of me. i can't see "colors" so to speak but i can feel the music only if the "musician" felt what they were making 100%. you know there's always that one track that makes you nod as though your made it yourself or there's the one the makes you feel that exact pain of the moment.

as far as the creation process-once i hear it i must recite it over and over until i can get to a place where i can "birth the beat." since i don't have any of the latest equipment to work with-i DO have to spend more time getting the beat to speak the way it did in my head. i'm not forcing it, rather more like completing the thought, if that makes any sense. i also do a lot of listening first and speaking later because i'm finding that more "producers" are hiding little bits within the beat that takes time to find but when you do, that slight adjustment has the ability to give the entire track a new identity. Like Busta Rhymes "Together" was already a hot track to me but the way Swizz continued to keep the guitar pluck going during the breakdown and the way it seems to change moods with Busta's words and then with the lady singing the hook. That's one case where i actually felt the music- not just a nod but i felt the aritsts swaying back and forth in front of the mic, hand gestures and Swizz shakin his head left and right during playback!

until later

blunt

myspace.com/bluntbeats314
 
yeh i get this feelin when i listen to good music. i cant quite put my finger on it. but especially when its hiphop or r'n'b....THATS when i feel lyk im home agin. music is more powerful than people think and regardless of what anyone says i thinks its the only thing that unites us successfully...why else would there be a group of people from different corners of the world talking to each other as if they were lifetime friends. theres a difference between a rapper lyk 50 cent who is just a franchise and nas who puts out real music from his soul... his fans (me for one) want to buy everyone of albums he does and doesnt care what the majority think!
 
i really like your thread knockout, its well stated and genuinely interesting. when i was younger, in elementary school is when i first started devoloping actual physical/emotional reactions to music.
the first music i ever loved was doggystyle by snoop dogg, which i eventually ruined by tearing out the magnetic tape and throwing in the garbage a few years later because i had grown intellectually and was completely sick of the lyrics. it was on cassette of course. that was definitely drastic and i wish i still had it actually. i dont know if i had a goosebump reaction at that point since it was so long ago, but i do know that was when i first got the "high" feeling that so many people speak about.

later on in my life i would get the experience of having goosebumps or a euphoric rush when hearing the perfect verse or chord progression or lyrics, and its even more interesting because as time went on i even got sort of different levels of that feeling.

for example, i dont listen to alternative rock much, or commercial hip hop or much hip hop at all nowadays, but ill hear [thinking of random examples] a red hot chili peppers song or one of the songs by queens of the stone age, specifically their single that came out a couple years ago [maybe less] or some of the songs that kanye west is coming out with, and all of it will just click, and ill have a little less intense but definite feeling.

it almost sounds crazy but its definitely true. in the past couple years i've listened to alot of bob dylan, the mars volta, lots of indy rock and hip hop, folk music, classic rock, old rockabilly country type stuff, even music that doesnt even really have a definite genre. and ill get the same feelings, though in different contexts of course. some songs will bring me to tears, remorse, or anger. while others will give me that feeling that i think alot of the guys on here can relate to which is that kind of euphoric feeling, getting goosebumps and having your hair on your head feel like its standing on end, a tingling sensation, etc.

in my [very]personal opinion the feeling is a result of hearing something that corresponds to something else. like an artist expressing a complex emotion or sequence of emotions that i can completely relate with, i think this is where chord progressions definitely show the depth of effect they can have. the same thing goes for lyrics, or even a solo on any given instrument.
i think as my musical tastes change and personalities/outlooks change, the reaction changes as well. for example i dont only get goosebumps from listening to xibit's "what you see is what you get" which i did when i was in 7th or 8th grade. i still can remember and even experience it still, but i get that feeling from music that i never thought i would be listening to when i was a kid. its a fascinating thing to me. just like the music that brings it forth.

stranger still is, im sure some people get that feeling from listening to music that would make me laugh or cringe or even feel disgusted.

when i make music i have ideas or images in my head that i try to convey. all of these become kind of intertwined with feelings and try to put it all together to form something beautiful in the end. wether its aggressive, downtempo, fast, slow, laid back, whatever.

i think the key to it all is that i get this feeling from music, but rarely from events in my actual life. I know for myself personly that the fact only serves to help better understand everything going on around me. and for all of us producers it drives us even more to do what we need to do to be successful and contented, and at the same time share our experiences with everyone else.

you people may not be able to relate to everything im saying, but im sure those who can say they love music can relate to at least parts of it.

thanks again for the post, we need more like these.
and for the people that might reply and say this stuff is deep.
the oceans always shallow on the outer edge, no disrepect intended.
peace
 
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This is a great post....Dont know if what I am going to say applies but painting a picture for me is always about telling a story and it is usually a love story...i dont know why but ever since I started writing I always want talk about this situations where the guy cheats on his girl and doesnt know whether he should tell her or tell the girl he is cheating with he has a girl or just be done with both and what not...and the funny thing is half of the time I am not in those situations (imagine what my girlfriend says when she hears my lyrics)...but somehow since I am able to understand the situation in my story I just feel soo compelled to tell it to others who might feel the same way as me......I have this song about a break up that I wrote 5 years ago and just got it recorded...the funny thing is I came out of a relationship a year ago and my current gf thinks is all about the ex when is really is not...is all about expressing whatever emotion is there.....

Soon enough I start to hear a violin, and then drums and I imagine the pauses...It is gotten to a point where I rap and sing in both english and spanish..and now I've gotten to the point where I am starting to learn how to make beats...because I feel that it is very difficult for someone else to tell my story but me....Like i write down the lyrics and then I hear the music (is that normal?) and I want to keep my lyrics and make the music around those (not the other way around)....So i dont know...I am 22 years old...I already graduated from a very good school (NYU) and now that I am in the working world (Wall street) I realize that nothing makes me happy but music....Is it too late to start up my career or should I start in what I think should be the last facet and learn to produce my own beats in order to tell my own stories? Ahhh.........
 
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