newbie theory questions

T

tgd

New member
Hi everyone. i have a few questions regarding the relationship between chords and scales. Ill give a couple examples of what im trying to figure out. First lets say im in the key of C and i use the chord progression I-VI-III, which would be C-A Minor-E minor. If i want to create a melody over top of these chords can i use any scale that is in the key of C or should i use a scale that only includes the notes that make up the progression i used?

Second, lets reverse the first example. Still in the key of C, if i create a melody using lets say the dorian mode using only the notes C-D-E flat-G-A-B flat. How would i go about creating a chord progression that would go with the melody.
Thanks for any help you can give.
 
hmm i think I know where u are confused. im no expert at music theory but i'll try to help. First when u write in a scale u stay in that scale. you know what chord progrsions are so lets skip that. what u need to realize is that the keys in the chords to make ur chord progresion are specific only one to 1 scale/key. Thoses chords you metion are only for the C major scale. You said u are in the key of C if im not mistaken musicians understand that a C-major scale. If u want to use that chord progression in a scale lets say C-minor then u keys used in the I-IV-III progression would change, to what ever it is i dont know of the top of my head. So when u say im in the key of C u reallying saying im writting in the C-major scale, not writing in the key of C any scale that start with the C key.
 
tgd said:
First lets say im in the key of C and i use the chord progression I-VI-III, which would be C-A Minor-E minor. If i want to create a melody over top of these chords can i use any scale that is in the key of C or should i use a scale that only includes the notes that make up the progression i used?
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You can use the C major scale over the entire progression. You could use C major pentatonic over the entire progression. You can use the C major scale over the C chord, A minor scale over Amin, and E phrygian over E minor.

But those are just diatonic examples. I can give many more. It all depends on the sound you want. For example, a blues musician might use C minor pentatonic or C blues scale over that progression. A jazz musician might use scales you would never think would sound good over those chords, but they know where to place those non-diatonic, chromatic and color tones.

tgd said:
Second, lets reverse the first example. Still in the key of C, if i create a melody using lets say the dorian mode using only the notes C-D-E flat-G-A-B flat. How would i go about creating a chord progression that would go with the melody.
Thanks for any help you can give.
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2 ways to think about it that will get you to the same point...

C dorian is built off the 2nd degree of Bb major. You could use chords diatonic to Bb major. (Bb-Cmin-Dmin-Eb-F7-Gmin-Adim)

Or you can use a modal progression. Same chords as Bb major, but starting from C dorian. (Cmin-Dmin-Eb-F7-Gmin-Adim-Bb)

Again, there are many approaches to coming up with progressions to go under a C dorian melody. These are just diatonic examples. It all depends on the sound you want.
 
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Hey All,

I'm really busy at the moment, so this answer won't be as usual as they usually are...

1) When you are in a key of a song, any mode (be it dorian, lydian, phrygian etc) will contain all the correct notes for the key that you are in, it's just the starting point and the sequence of notes that give it character. Meaning while playing the progression I IV III, you could in essence create a melody just using C Ionian scale (C Maj scale) because all the notes WILL work, but the melody will be textureless... There's a reason for alternative modes. Let's take a look at the Phrygian mode. The Phrygian mode (of any maj key) contains this formula 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7. So Phrygian is the 3rd mode in chord harmonisation in the key of C, so it will be E Phrygian. Now the quality of the scale is derived from it having the b2, b3, b6, b7. If I've lost you on this one, let me try and break it down...

E is the 3rd note in the key of C, meaning it's scale is Phrygian. (now presuming you know your key signatures) we all know that E contains the notes E F# G# A B C# D#, now you could imagine how aweful using those notes to play over the key of C would sound with all that dissonance, so to create the Phrygian Mode, we flatten the 2, 3, 6, 7 to make the mode fit in with the KEY OF C, so that there are no out of place notes.

I know this is long.....

The tonal quality of the Phrygian scale is a flamenco style, so you can see that using different modes to create a melody or solo is important, not necessary but important.

2. You're question doesn't make sense... If you were in the Key of C and you created a melody using Dorian, that means you would be using the D Dorian scale (second degree in the key of C) to create the melody and that contains the notes D E F G A B C, if you created a melody using C Dorian, that means you'd be in the key of Bb.... A method to use to figure out a suitable chord progression to a melody would be to analyse all the notes you use, write them down, now find out what key your melody is in. There are no RIGHT ways to determining a chord progression to a melody, but it is a good way to find out what key you're in The chord progression entirely depends on the creators ear.

hope this helps.

Brad
 
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Yea ... pretty busy writing that novel ^^^^^

LOL
 
i find it much easier to work on a chord progression before writing the melody, that way your melody will react to the chord progession, and hopefully create a more flowing piece of music, if thats what your after.
 
FenixOZ said:
i find it much easier to work on a chord progression before writing the melody, that way your melody will react to the chord progession, and hopefully create a more flowing piece of music, if thats what your after.
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True, that does make your "melody making" job more easier.
 
Listen man there is no reason to modulate in a Hiphop beat unless you plan on havin a Bridge... going to the dominant will do but generally... If you in C minor... don't leave it... take it as you gravity point it must pull you back always
Hope I could help you...
 
A.I.Music said:
Hey All,

I'm really busy at the moment, so this answer won't be as usual as they usually are...

1) When you are in a key of a song, any mode (be it dorian, lydian, phrygian etc) will contain all the correct notes for the key that you are in, it's just the starting point and the sequence of notes that give it character. Meaning while playing the progression I IV III, you could in essence create a melody just using C Ionian scale (C Maj scale) because all the notes WILL work, but the melody will be textureless... There's a reason for alternative modes. Let's take a look at the Phrygian mode. The Phrygian mode (of any maj key) contains this formula 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7. So Phrygian is the 3rd mode in chord harmonisation in the key of C, so it will be E Phrygian. Now the quality of the scale is derived from it having the b2, b3, b6, b7. If I've lost you on this one, let me try and break it down...

E is the 3rd note in the key of C, meaning it's scale is Phrygian. (now presuming you know your key signatures) we all know that E contains the notes E F# G# A B C# D#, now you could imagine how aweful using those notes to play over the key of C would sound with all that dissonance, so to create the Phrygian Mode, we flatten the 2, 3, 6, 7 to make the mode fit in with the KEY OF C, so that there are no out of place notes.

I know this is long.....

The tonal quality of the Phrygian scale is a flamenco style, so you can see that using different modes to create a melody or solo is important, not necessary but important.

2. You're question doesn't make sense... If you were in the Key of C and you created a melody using Dorian, that means you would be using the D Dorian scale (second degree in the key of C) to create the melody and that contains the notes D E F G A B C, if you created a melody using C Dorian, that means you'd be in the key of Bb.... A method to use to figure out a suitable chord progression to a melody would be to analyse all the notes you use, write them down, now find out what key your melody is in. There are no RIGHT ways to determining a chord progression to a melody, but it is a good way to find out what key you're in The chord progression entirely depends on the creators ear.

hope this helps.

Brad
Click to expand...

Brad/A.I.M.,

please write a book on music theory (when youre not so busy!!!)

you tell it so it makes sense!!! and you got the knowledge.

i would buy it and recommend it to anyone looking to learn more about music theory.

many thanks for the time you take to drop these gems of knowledge!!!

peace
nattwalls
 
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