Music Composers

Micro79

Member
I have a question for the intellectuals in music. The term music composer. What does this entitle or whats the description, when it comes to electronic and hip hop music, thats not considered popular music?
 
I have a question for the intellectuals in music. The term music composer. What does this entitle or whats the description, when it comes to electronic and hip hop music, thats not considered popular music?
Music composer: Someone who composes their own music, regardless of genre. Duh.
 
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I thought I made it clear. This question was for the intellectuals. Now leave this thread, if you can't answer with the proper edicate.
 
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My reason for the question was not to be taken off course by your smart guy answer. Theirs way more to why Im asking this in the first place. But I see we cant get past step 1. Ask the question for opinion. Not becuz I dont know what to compose means or what a composers does. But when it comes to different genre's, terms change. And I wanted to know why, next or step 2.
 
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'cause you know, you opinion weights more and is more valid if you are educated in something. It doesn't matter if you are a person with your own experiences and knowledge to answer that question, which is by itself, not intellectual or educated AT ALL.
 
Is everybody crazy on this site or am I trippin. You people act like I asked a disrespectful question. Like if I offended you personally. The whole reason why I said intellectual was so that a person wouldnt have to put DUH! At the end of their basic ass answer.

Another note: then why is it that when a composer does work on an album for trap, pop, or r&b/hip hop, you 're now called a songwriter? Which is suppose to mean something totally different?
 
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I thought I made it clear. This question was for the intellectuals. Now pump and thrust yourself out this thread, if you can't answer with the proper edicate.

1) it was an intellectual answer
2) it was given with the right etiquette (not edicate)
3) your response was rude and unacceptable
4) a composer is a creator of anything - a poet, an author, a melodicist are all composers

I will be cleaning up subsequent responses to this message and any further inflammatory remarks will also be edited out
 
however, in the context of making recordings, most times the work is done wearing the hat of a songwriter - someone who works with both words and music

for me though the distinction between composer and songwriter is one of scale (length of material not size of ensemble) and complexity - how many distinct ideas are present, are they manipulated when they reappear and how

A songwriter may only work with 3 or 4 minutes durations (although with house this might hit 17'). In addition even if they have 4 or 5 ideas these are almost always presented intact each time they appear
 
Ok. I didnt come here, to this site. To just ask stupid questions. If I knew they were dumn I honestly wouldnt have asked for others opinions. But that just goes to show me that everyone is not into answer people/musicians with respect on this site. I really dont see how I treated pumpthrust....lol....rude, when I was the one who recieved a rude reply first off. I appreciate what he said but didnt appreciate dudes sarcasm. But hey if im wrong im wrong. Goodnight music lovers.
 
It's simple on the one hand, but more complicated on closer inspection, largely due to expectations caused by class distinction within the music industry and tradition, as much as anything else.

As has been touched upon in prior posts/threads, the distinctions between composer, songwriter, arranger, and producer have blurred and shifted and cross-pollinated so much over the years, and more so since the advent of the digital revolution, that it is probably high time to review and revamp some terminology. But in traditional terms, songwriters usually deal with songs (i.e. short pieces of generally popular music with lyrics). Composers tend to deal with longer works, often (but not always) within the orchestral/"classical" tradition; many/most of these works are instrumental.

Again, some of these distinctions are arbitrary, and some of them may be dated. But perhaps a comparison might be drawn between the terms story-writer on the one hand, and novelist/author/playwright on the other. Distinctions of degree, not necessarily quality (though sociologically, the terms still vary in qualitative weight; or, we expect less intellectual rigor/quality output from a "songwriter" than we do a "composer," but as I believe the Gershwins said, "It 'taint necessarily so").

GJ
 
Thanks for the info my man. I feel the same when it comes to the two. Songwriter or Composer.

And just to add a little bit more. I should have said earlier that I am a music producer and engineer. And that when Im making the music by composing the instruments. Is that considered songwriting also or am I considered one of the songwriters. Or am I the composer, producer, engineer. Knowing that what I do is gonna have lyrics and melody to it. Thats where I should have went in the beginning. Sorry for confusion.
 
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I think this depends on the genre a little bit. I've seen producers in Rock & Roll contribute ideas to the songwriting, arrangement, and composition of their clients' songs. But I don't think they get writers credits for that kind of thing.

If I made the music, like a beatmaker, then I would expect some points. If you sell a beat, your credits should be outlined in the contract. But as a true producer, I think it's just your collaborative advice towards shaping the song - not necessarily songwriting or composing.

Like others have said, a lot of musicians are wearing many of these hats at the same time these days. I'm creating and releasing fully-tracked instrumentals by myself, and I generally call myself "Producer & Composer". I consider mixing, mastering, audio engineering, and arranging parts of my overall job. I guess with the way things are done at big labels and studios, these efforts would be subcontracted to experts and masters in the respective fields. But that's not possible at the moment, for better or worse.
 
Not necessarily ^^. Producers (the traditional, sit behind the board with the engineer while the vocalist is tracking kind) have been making changes/editing songs, and getting co-author credit, regardless of genre, for many years. Especially if it's not a well-funded/fully advanced project. The trade-off for a hot producer working cheaply is often a "piece of the publishing." This is often more than warranted, as a good producer is worth their weight in gold in the areas of song editing/co-writing/doctoring and arranging, and these can be major contributions. There are those cases where certain famous producers will do nothing exceptional really, and still demand a co-writing credit as a cost of doing business, however.

It is all based on contribution, perceived contribution, negotiating skills, and who has the "juice" in any given case.

GJ
 
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I have a question for the intellectuals in music. The term music composer. What does this entitle or whats the description, when it comes to electronic and hip hop music, thats not considered popular music?

It just means you create or "compose" the song - which involves the following factors:

1. You determine the key of the song. CRUCIAL, especially for hip hop/rap producers who don't think they need to learn music theory.

2. Arrangement/sequencing.

DON'T EVER have a song or beat that doesn't evolve after 8-16 bars. The changes can be very subtle if that's what you want, but they need to be there.

3. Add your own flavor.

Let your personality shine through!

If the rapper has a line that includes the phrase "smoking kush" and you smoke dro yourself and are into that - throw in an inhale & exhale sample right around the point at which they say that!

You may need to mute an instrument or two as those samples play, but it will ingrain those lyrics into the listener's mind & will help to maintain interest as the muted instruments are re-introduced.

Hope that helped!
 
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I believe a composer is one who creates or puts music together, regardless of genre and tradition. In hip hop, beat makers and producers perform the task of a composer.
 
As a classically trained composer, I believe using the title composer traditionally pertains more to an individual with formal composition training. This does not mean that an individual that creates a song is not a composer. When working with film I use the title Independent Composer. I believe this distinction assures those clients who seek my services as a composer that I have completed formal composition training. Much like any individual who undergoes any type of formal training receives a title or certification upon completion of the program. I personally believe that each title serves a purpose allowing the artist to be more highly specific on what skills they possess. When talking about a song we generally refer to it as just that, a song. Hence the title songwriter. We generally do not refer to a song as a composition. This is where using the title composer may be considered misleading to a degree. I list my skills as Composer, because I’ve trained formally, then Producer, and finally Singer/Songwriter.
 
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While I understand your point, and I agree that education can be important, you actually point more to the tradition-based false dichotomy that I mentioned in an earlier post.

It's great to be educated, but it's talent (in this case, _ideas_, not playing ability) that matter. Nobody can "certify" that for you.

For example, out of the three busiest Hollywood composers of the past three or four decades (Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, and John Williams), which of the three is formally trained? If you thought Hans Zimmer or Danny Elfman, you're wrong; both are self-taught and former rock/pop band musicians. Zimmer is probably at this point the most recorded composer in Hollywood history. If he had needed a degree to "certify" him, he would never have gotten started in the first place. While lofty work, composition is not brain surgery. It is about ideas...

GJ
 
While I understand your point, and I agree that education can be important, you actually point more to the tradition-based false dichotomy that I mentioned in an earlier post.

It's great to be educated, but it's talent (in this case, _ideas_, not playing ability) that matter. Nobody can "certify" that for you.

For example, out of the three busiest Hollywood composers of the past three or four decades (Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, and John Williams), which of the three is formally trained? If you thought Hans Zimmer or Danny Elfman, you're wrong; both are self-taught and former rock/pop band musicians. Zimmer is probably at this point the most recorded composer in Hollywood history. If he had needed a degree to "certify" him, he would never have gotten started in the first place. While lofty work, composition is not brain surgery. It is about ideas...

GJ

I completely agree that I was referring to a composer in the traditional sense as that has been my experience with it. And for the most part I agree with your earlier post, however, I was adding, in my opinion, the missing element of “formal” training. Whether self-taught or taught, this greater understanding of the music language allows one to translate their ideas into reality. For example, would Danny Elfman posses the ability to write an orchestral piece if he was not trained in how to write for each individual instrument within the modern day orchestra. Which by the way I think is really cool that those composers did not graduate with a degree in music, however, are very successful. This brings me to my second point where I’d like to clarify that I am not suggesting that attaining such a title certifies talent. There are talented composers and non talented composers. I personally feel that the title of a composer is earned. I believe those Hollywood composers earned that title. This does not mean I am correct. Like I said earlier, it’s merely my preference and experience with the use of the word.

*Note this is my first experience with a forum so I hope I'm using the Quote option correctly.
 
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