Mixing 808/ 808 music theory

Adjust ASDHR values so they hit hard, tail long without being overbearing(or just layer a long 808 with a short one thats louder). Make sure you have them monophonic so when the next one hits the last one stops immediately.
 
SIDE CHAIN COMPRESSION. Basically, you set up a compressor on the 808. Depending on what DAW/VST you use, you can have this compressor triggered by the kick drum. This will make it so that every time the kick drum plays, the 808 will be turned down a tad so that the two are not muddy and competing. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR1tDwl0r5k

With a very fast attack and release, the bass gets slightly compressed (just a few dB gain reduction) on each kick strike. This would quickly push the bass out of the way so that the kick attack can cut through the mix a little better, but it recovers quickly so that there is still good sustain from the bass note.
 
^^^both of them are right. there are many, many techniques which are effective. side-chain compression is definitely more accurate and efficient than manipulation of the volume envelope alone (i.e. ASDR). mixing 808s is really the same as any other bass heavy mixes. look into side chain compression, parallel compression, low end EQ, etc. All general stuff you will want to know for any mix anyway. Exclusive Audio makes some pretty good sounding 808 plugins. i usually make my own though because they are super easy to make.
 
^^^Side chain compression? Depending on the song, actually shaping the 808 will have way more influence on it's final sound unless you want "pumping"...but most just dig thru their sounds until they find a sampled one that's good enough then do what they think "professionals" do. I could understand if you had a bass and kick competing, but...we're talking about an 808. :cheers:
 
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I agree with you, shaping it does have more of a substantial impact. However, side-chain compression isn't just used for pumping. If you subtly add the side-chain compression, looking at the gain reduction meter more minor reduction, you will not get a pumping effect. Without even really noticing, the kick comes through just a little bit clearer and less muddy.
 
^^Agreed with both above, definitely helps to make it cut through. As far as vsts are concerned, I've found that messin around with sylenth you can usually get a pretty clean sounding bass line. Gives you more control of the tonal qualities aswell. Not found of working with sampled 808's, they usually make my mixes muddy.
 
@Hamstank, I apologize, I wasn't challenging what you said, I was challenging the idea "side-chain compression is definitely more accurate and efficient than manipulation of the volume envelope alone". The point I'm making is everything is approached on a song to song basis. Sometimes side-chain compression can absolutely be what is needed. Sometimes a boost in the mid lows, sometimes filtering, parallel EQ, sometimes just boosting the overall gain on the 808 or lowering the gain on everything else. There is no set priority beyond what the individual song needs.

The problem I have is every thread on anything low end in this forum comes with the suggestion of "side-chain compression". Anytime anyone gives any answer other than that, people tend to downplay it as some unorthodox method that's not gonna get the job done. Any real audio engineer is going to recognize the hundreds of ways to get the job done and see them all equally. Instead our advice is leading to a generation of "digital side-chainers" who think because this technique is so heavily talked about every song needs it put there by the hands of a novice. It shows in the mixes that come across my desk for repair daily.

With all that said, I didn't mean to downplay your post in the process. Side chain compression is definitely an efficient way to bring out any sound in a mix from vocals to a guitar you want subtle, but very noticeable, to giving low end presence.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
@Hamstank, I apologize, I wasn't challenging what you said, I was challenging the idea "side-chain compression is definitely more accurate and efficient than manipulation of the volume envelope alone". The point I'm making is everything is approached on a song to song basis. Sometimes side-chain compression can absolutely be what is needed. Sometimes a boost in the mid lows, sometimes filtering, parallel EQ, sometimes just boosting the overall gain on the 808 or lowering the gain on everything else. There is no set priority beyond what the individual song needs.

The problem I have is every thread on anything low end in this forum comes with the suggestion of "side-chain compression". Anytime anyone gives any answer other than that, people tend to downplay it as some unorthodox method that's not gonna get the job done. Any real audio engineer is going to recognize the hundreds of ways to get the job done and see them all equally. Instead our advice is leading to a generation of "digital side-chainers" who think because this technique is so heavily talked about every song needs it put there by the hands of a novice. It shows in the mixes that come across my desk for repair daily.

With all that said, I didn't mean to downplay your post in the process. Side chain compression is definitely an efficient way to bring out any sound in a mix from vocals to a guitar you want subtle, but very noticeable, to giving low end presence.
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I advocated that side chain compression adds accuracy to the mix, when used with all of these other things. I don't see what the issue is. I did not state that the other elements are negligible, or "unorthodox". I try to give helpful information to people who ask questions. It seems like you misconstrued my comment.

I'm sorry that you are so worked up about side chain compression and what not. Is there anything that I can do to make you feel better?
 
"side-chain compression is definitely more accurate and efficient than manipulation of the volume envelope alone"

That's a statement that doesn't apply all of the time. To advise someone looking for answers otherwise can be very counterproductive. No more, no less. And I guess you fail to understand I was simply over apologetic because I didn't want the guy who originally suggested side chaining to think I was denouncing his answer. Both, as well as the other practices mentioned and hundreds more can make an 808 fill into a mix well. You feel better now? :cheers:
 
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
"side-chain compression is definitely more accurate and efficient than manipulation of the volume envelope alone"

That's a statement that doesn't apply all of the time. To advise someone looking for answers otherwise can be very counterproductive. No more, no less. And I guess you fail to understand I was simply over apologetic because I didn't want the guy who originally suggested side chaining to think I was denouncing his answer. Both, as well as the other practices mentioned and hundreds more can make an 808 fill into a mix well. You feel better now? :cheers:
Click to expand...

I'm all good. Just wanted to make sure I don't do anything to contradict your omniscience...take care :)
 
the bass used in the hydro's beat, i believe it is from shawty redd kit or lex luger's i'm boomin' kick. it has incredible hi-frequency presence... I was trying to make something similar, with ableton's analog, could get similar tone but no presence, not even close...
 
I think the points made so far are all essential to know how to use if you want to be able to manipulate an 808 bass to fit a beat

Envelope - I use something around 20ms delay for the kick - play it by ear,
Sidechain
Monophonic(Pretty essential)etc..)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but for 808 mixes that will actually sound banging on headphones, and to get some harmonics going, distortion will do wonders. This can let users "hear" the bass if they aren't listening to a system with that sub range.

My personal favorite method for 808 bass is to frequency split it up.. When people are talking about side-chaining, I personally split below 250-300 in order to only apply this compression to the low frequencies. This way you get it to duck behind the kick but can still hear the top end, giving it a fuller, more instant impact. I also split the mid highs because normally adding spatial effects to a bass instrument produces muddy garbage. Well if you split the highs you can stereo widen, add chorus, flanger whatever you want, and the bass can still be in mono and full of impact. I use FL Studio so to do this I just route the bass to 2 or 3 channels(you can use however many you want), and I add a multi-band compressor with no threshold or ratio (doing nothing at all) to each one. Then I mute all bands except low on one, mid on the next and so on, essentially splitting the sound. I know that ableton has its own feature for doing this.

Further note on making space:

Some people use TrackSpacer 2.0 from Wavesfactory for a similar EQ restricted side-chain sound. Its really easy, but does not offer the flexibility of the above method. Some people even just automate a simple eq to roll of the lows when the kick hits using a peak controller. These methods all do something similar in terms of making space for a kick with an 808, but some will work well in some tracks but suck in others. Knowing a lot of ways to do this will get you the best results.
 
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Okay everything I read here wasn't helpful,, Your 808 has a key,, tune your 808 in key,, then make a fast or slow pattern,, whater you like..pitch it up or down in certain areas of the pattern to make it pop more,, & what you need to make it pump or boom more is a lil distortion,, so try fast distort or blood overdrive if you using FL studio
 
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