Louis Jordan???

J

jeffersonparish

New member
Any jazz historian's on here?


After hearing Quincy Jones talk about him, I read Louis Jordan's biography, Son of Arkansas, Father of R&B. Because I've been listening to pop and rap so long, I needed something different, and Quincy Jones and Ray Charles gave LJ major props so I bought the book. During breaks from reading, I listened to the songs that were mentioned and actually found a good bit that I liked immediately.


Maybe someone who plays jazz and knows more about jazz history can shed some light on this interesting part – in the book, it says that when his career started to decline, jazz and rock 'n roll were increasing in popularity. Louis's big band style didn't fit into either. What confuses me is that he was considered 'too pop for jazz.' I don't understand this AT ALL. Yes, he wrote songs about fish fries and military lingo, but the book doesn't give any indication that anyone thought his musicianship was sub-par.


This actually threw me off so much that I looked up some other articles about this and it appears that this snobbish attitude seems to have the norm of jazz musicians at that time. It's as if other musicians looked down on the style (not so much Jordan himself) because it was focused on showmanship and entertainment so much, instead of solos, etc.??? If so, how does that make sense, considering Duke Ellington also did that style of music?


I'd love to hear from some jazz heads, as I'm a lyricist and topline writer for pop music, so I don't listen to songs 'with a musician's ear.' And when I listen to Louis Jordan's music, I don't see why anyone would look down on it.


Thanks,


Jay
 
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Louis Jordan is one of my favs. He is (_now_) considered a pioneer and a pop genius for his creative use of the nexus between blues, jazz, r&b, and nascent rock & roll, and when I was teaching H3 (History of Hip Hop), I used him as a founder there as well-- if you listen to a lot of his rhymes, he's basically rapping over a swing or shuffle beat ("Open the Door, Richard," or "Brother, Beware" are great examples). But unfortunately, back then, he didn't get a lot of respect from the "hip" musician crowd. He had his day as far as popularity with the r&b/"race music" demographic, but swing musicians didn't dig him (neither white or black), he wasn't hardcore enough for the be-boppers, and he wasn't a straight-ahead blues artist, so he didn't really get the respect he should have. He made some great music though, and was also in the right place at the right time to get in on the early "music video" craze in Hollywood-- he did some solo shorts, made a feature film, if I remember correctly, and guest starred in a Three Stooges movie (I have this one on DVD, and I bought it because Louis was on it!).

Another fav of mine is "Boogie Real Slow (with the Blue Light Way Down Low)."

If you dig Louis Jordan, you must have a good ear!!

GJ
 
Listen to Kenny G.
Then go find an older, working jazz performer and ask them what they think of Kenny G.
Listen to some Dave Liebman and some great modern jazz players from the same period Kenny G was successful.
Then go back and listen to Kenny G and you will understand.
 
While there may be some kind of confluence that sort-of, kind-of allows for an other-dimensional comparison between Kenny G and Louis Jordan... No, not really... There just isn't.

GJ
 
rhythmgj said:
While there may be some kind of confluence that sort-of, kind-of allows for an other-dimensional comparison between Kenny G and Louis Jordan... No, not really... There just isn't.

GJ
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I wasn't comparing Kenny G to Louis Jordan at all, just commenting on jazz "snobbery".
 
rhythmgj said:
...unfortunately, back then, he didn't get a lot of respect from the "hip" musician crowd. He had his day as far as popularity with the r&b/"race music" demographic, but swing musicians didn't dig him (neither white or black), he wasn't hardcore enough for the be-boppers, and he wasn't a straight-ahead blues artist, so he didn't really get the respect he should have.
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Apparently, it affected him enough to make him try to 'update' his style on some new songs when was on Tangerine Records. Sadly, the recording sessions did not go well and none of the songs were ever released.

It's very much a shame that even though he had great skills, other musicians were so dismissive of him.


rhythmgj said:
He made some great music though, and was also in the right place at the right time to get in on the early "music video" craze in Hollywood...
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I was really surprised when I read that he did quite a few music videos, with some being pretty much feature films. I had no idea this was going on at the time.


rhythmgj said:
"Boogie Real Slow (with the Blue Light Way Down Low)."
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I loved this song before I even knew it was sung by him. I was happy to find out!

"Is You Is..." and "Caldonia" made me laugh the first time I heard them. Both were immediately stuck in my head.
 
Pumpthrust said:
Listen to Kenny G. Then go find an older, working jazz performer and ask them what they think of Kenny G. Listen to some Dave Liebman and some great modern jazz players from the same period Kenny G was successful. Then go back and listen to Kenny G and you will understand.
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One day I hope to listen to music with a musician's hear and understand what you mean. My musicianship skills are currently not there, yet.

When I was in grade school, Kenny G was one of the hottest artists on the planet, along with Mariah Carey, Jewel, etc.

Back then, when I heard "Breathless," all I heard was a song I liked that had a saxophone in it. When I listen to "Caldonia," "Blue Bossa," "Take Five," etc., it's pretty much the same feeling – they all have saxophones, but I can't tell who is the good player or who is the great one. Those songs overall just moved me as soon as I heard them.

I started learning music theory last year, so I hope to get there one day where I can hear things that advanced musicians hear.


Pumpthrust said:
I wasn't comparing Kenny G to Louis Jordan at all, just commenting on jazz "snobbery".
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I thought you were comparing them, too. Glad you clarified this.
 
jeffersonparish said:
Interesting tidbit – I just read Quincy Jones's autobiography, and I believe one of the guest authors made a sarcastic comment about Kenny G not being real jazz.
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Keep in mind that when people judge Kenny G, they are not judging his skill because his talent as a jazz practicioner is beyond dispute. That man has chops for decades and could easily hang with the best. What people are judging him harshly for is his music. Similar to what happened to Wes Montgomery and George Benson. When you are THAT talented, people wonder why you would "waste" it NOT making high-level jazz. But you won't get rich making high-level jazz.
 
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Pumpthrust said:
Keep in mind that when people judge Kenny G, they are not judging his skill because his talent as a jazz practicioner is beyond dispute...When you are THAT talented, people wonder why you would "waste" it NOT making high-level jazz..
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So they're essentially saying, "I'm mad...not because of your skill level, but because you're not playing what I want you to play."

That's even worse.

Some people always find something to be mad about.
 
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jeffersonparish said:
So they're essentially saying, "I'm mad...not because of your skill level, but because you're not playing what I want you to play."

That's even worse.

Some people always find something to be mad about.
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Being "mad" has nothing to do with it, more "dismissive" if anything. It's all taste, I don't expect someone who has dedicated their lives to excellence and pushing the boundaries of an artform to be appreciative of bland, soulless, elevator-jazz. What someone may percieve as snobbery is just one person's expert analysis of art. Subjective-yes, but I would consider the opinion of a Marsalis or Shorter over a casual Kenny G listener.
 
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Pumpthrust said:
Being "mad" has nothing to do with it, more "dismissive" if anything.
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Nah. I will agree that I was wrong is saying "they," as if ALL are mad.

Some may dismiss him and go on about their business, but there are many that have gone on record and still go out of their way to express actual anger about him.

But...they are well within their right to be angry, dismissive, or however else they feel.



Pumpthrust said:
It's all taste, I don't expect someone who has dedicated their lives to excellence and pushing the boundaries of an artform to be appreciative of bland, soulless, elevator-jazz. What someone may percieve as snobbery is just one person's expert analysis of art. Subjective-yes, but I would consider the opinion of a Marsalis or Shorter over a casual Kenny G listener.
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I can absolutely respect an expert's opinion, but I don't think it has any more value than any other audience member's opinion.

When I listen to "Songbird," it makes me want to grab my girl and start slow dancing. If Wynton Marsalis thinks that is soulless, I would not dismiss his opinion at all, but that wouldn't make me NOT want to dance anymore when I hear the song. Still, more power to him; there's enough music out there to make everyone happy!
 
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Got off topic a bit.


Long story short – Louis Jordan's music is awesome, and I think it's a shame he didn't and doesn't receive more recognition!


Thank you guys for your feedback. I didn't know anything about this guy before a few months ago.
 
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