Help with this chord progression

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Derrick Foreal

Guest
so im playing this Fma7-Em7-Cma7-Dm7-Em7 in 4/4, with a 4 bar loop but something about that Cma7 is not sounding right is it just my ear or does this not musically correspond.
 
it dosnt sound bad but im just alittle unsure about it- i would have to ask a singer maybe. someone that could tell me if the key is right. it sounds alot better once i added a melody over it and a few kicks an snares. but still wanna get some exact advice- not that i wanna base the music on that but i just wanna know im doing this progression stuff right and understanding it

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

also alot of the times i use a lead-in-note to my next loop when i create melodies, such as the Em7. Is that a noob thing because i notice sometimes when i add it that makes a loop sound very repetitive verses, lets say, sustaining the last note for the 4 beats. Help with this would be good too
 
The key is correct. Take all your 7ths away and you have a progression in the key of f Lydian which is a mode of the Aminor/cmajor scale. What youve done is taken the blues approach, playing all 7th chords, which in effect is borrowing notes that are not in the key of Aminor/Cmajor. This technique is what gives blues and jazz that "outside" feeling with a strong resolve to the tonic. The problem youre having is probably the lack of resolve to a strong tonic, which is ok. Once you get a melody going it will "seam" itself together...

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

Leading tones are the basis of much theory, so much so that a long time ago people altered the minor scale to have a raised 7th giving a stronger resolve to the I(1). That scale is called harmonic minor, and we hear it ALOT. It is most def not a noob thing. You are already ahead of the curve...
 
Derrick Foreal said:
so im playing this Fma7-Em7-Cma7-Dm7-Em7 in 4/4, with a 4 bar loop but something about that Cma7 is not sounding right is it just my ear or does this not musically correspond.
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The problem is in the progression itself - it moves by step from F[sup]maj7[/sup] to Em[sup]7[/sup] then it jumps to the C[sup]maj7[/sup] and then it resumes it's stepwise movement....

The movement from the Em[sup]7[/sup] to the C[sup]maj7[/sup] is known as an elisive cadence, in that it moves by changing one note, the D, into a C, with the other notes, E-G-B, remaining exactly as they were. The resulting aural confusion is one of your brain saying to you, we just used those notes, in the same position but the same notes nonetheless - this can be disconcerting and lends an air of incompleteness to the movement

If you were to substitute G[sup]7[/sup] for the first Em[sup]7[/sup] it would not be a problem, even Em[sup]7b9[/sup] would go some way to restoring a sense of movement.

The first 3 lines demonstrate the progression with a bass line added, which tends to emphasise the elisive progression in line 1 and 2, line 3 replaces the Em[sup]7[/sup] with a G[sup]7[/sup]


Lines 4-6 are the same as lines 1-3 without a bass line, making the elisive movement less pronounced

[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/dfrChords.mp3[/mp3]

dfrChords.png
 
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ok bandcoach i understand wht your saying but even when i listen to your examples line 1 and 4 still sound better than the rest would you not agree? in my opinion it flows/ sounds better with and without the baseline. and if someone heard it d o you thing theyd say, "hey something dosnt belong. and by the way those last two chord where half notes not whole notes sort of like a rise to the next loop.
 
Hmmm, never heard of an Elisive cadence, must do some reading now... And when i play the Em7-Cma7 on guitar it sounds gorgeous, notes remain the same but position changes giving it a slightly different timbre. And I agree derrick, example 1 sounds best to me as well, fwiw...
 
JGrisly said:
Hmmm, never heard of an Elisive cadence, must do some reading now... And when i play the Em7-Cma7 on guitar it sounds gorgeous, notes remain the same but position changes giving it a slightly different timbre. And I agree derrick, example 1 sounds best to me as well, fwiw...
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See, i know bandcoach knows whats hes talking about but i also knoe sometimes theory can get in the way of musical expression and feel. i know realized that i was using basically the same notes and maybe thats why it sounded wierd because i was using my eyes not my ears but i too think they sound well but i was just unsure
 
Derrick Foreal said:
See, i know bandcoach knows whats hes talking about but i also knoe sometimes theory can get in the way of musical expression and feel.
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The problem seems to be that you have the wrong perspective on music theory and its application. I don't think BC was trying to say that your chord progression was incorrect, but was trying to explain WHY it sounds odd to you and offering some suggestions. If its what you like, its what you like.
Music theory isn't used to tell you what is right or wrong or validate creative expression, but how to make sense of what it is you're hearing.
 
Pumpthrust said:
The problem seems to be that you have the wrong perspective on music theory and its application. I don't think BC was trying to say that your chord progression was incorrect, but was trying to explain WHY it sounds odd to you and offering some suggestions. If its what you like, its what you like.
Music theory isn't used to tell you what is right or wrong or validate creative expression, but how to make sense of what it is you're hearing.
Click to expand...

i get what your saying thats true
 
JGrisly said:
Hmmm, never heard of an Elisive cadence, must do some reading now... And when i play the Em7-Cma7 on guitar it sounds gorgeous, notes remain the same but position changes giving it a slightly different timbre. And I agree derrick, example 1 sounds best to me as well, fwiw...
Click to expand...

It comes from Vincent Persichetti's work in describing 20th century techniques.

As for my explanation, I have to say, that the I do not think that line 1 has as much impact as line 4 (or vice versa, if you are looking for the notes that stick out to mean impact) - line 4 stands on its own because the movement is far more subtle than line 1, even though the right hand in both cases is exactly the same - the lack of the movement E-C in the bass allows the chords to move freely and unhindered without distraction.....

just my two cents.

@pumpthrust, as always, you get it.....
 
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ok im alitlle confused bancoach because i though line 1 and 4 for were the same progression i posted, one with and the other w/o a baseline. also in your second sentence you compare line 1 to line 1 which is again confusing. so im lost
 
apologies for the confusion in the comparison statement too many things going on and I misread what I had written before posting it.

Yes; line 1 and line 4 are the same in terms of the progression, but they are different if you only use the right hand:

consider the voice leading in in line 1

F[sup]maj7[/sup]Em[sup]7[/sup]C[sup]maj7[/sup]Dm[sup]7[/sup]Em[sup]7[/sup]
A[sub]3[/sub]G[sub]3[/sub]G[sub]3[/sub]F[sub]3[/sub]G[sub]3[/sub]
F[sub]3[/sub]E[sub]3[/sub]E[sub]3[/sub]D[sub]3[/sub]E[sub]3[/sub]
E[sub]3[/sub]D[sub]3[/sub]C[sub]3[/sub]C[sub]3[/sub]D[sub]3[/sub]
C[sub]3[/sub]B[sub]2[/sub]B[sub]2[/sub]A[sub]2[/sub]B[sub]2[/sub]
F[sub]1[/sub]E[sub]1[/sub]C[sub]1[/sub]D[sub]1[/sub]E[sub]1[/sub]

The first four lines are very smooth moving by semitone or tone at each chord change; however the bass moves by step and then leaps down, disrupting the smooth flow.

The voice leading in line 4 is uninterrupted by the bass movement (being the first four lines of voice leading within the first version) and is perceived as being smoother in movement and smoother on the ears as well.

F[sup]maj7[/sup]Em[sup]7[/sup]C[sup]maj7[/sup]Dm[sup]7[/sup]Em[sup]7[/sup]
A[sub]3[/sub]G[sub]3[/sub]G[sub]3[/sub]F[sub]3[/sub]G[sub]3[/sub]
F[sub]3[/sub]E[sub]3[/sub]E[sub]3[/sub]D[sub]3[/sub]E[sub]3[/sub]
E[sub]3[/sub]D[sub]3[/sub]C[sub]3[/sub]C[sub]3[/sub]D[sub]3[/sub]
C[sub]3[/sub]B[sub]2[/sub]B[sub]2[/sub]A[sub]2[/sub]B[sub]2[/sub]
 
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