ghost kicks?

S

StanleySteamer

New member
hey guys quick question about ghost kicks. I have a sample I'm working with and its kind of different it reminds me more of that new york boom gap style and what not. And I remember one time I remember hearing about ghost kicks back when I was using reason, because I know the red rum in reason lets u do it right there. But currently I was maschine2 studio version and I was wondering how you guys go about making ghost kicks? The max velocity of kicks on maschine is 127, i am doing it right now on my beat by dropped the kick before the big one comes by dropping it down to 100 velocity, i tried 75 but it kind of sounded too low. I am just trying to make sure I am on the right path. Any advice?
 
I usually play the kick how I want the notes to hit and then go in and edit the velocity afterwards. I wont put a number amount on it because it depends on taste and what feel you have going on in the track but keep in mind you still have to mix (compress) it so you don't want a ghost note to be too loud in most situations.
 
the phrase ghost in drumming and most other instruments means to play quieter: a better descriptive term would be whisper notes

so you need to make a distinction between your average level and your loudest and your quietest

I think, based on what you have written above, that you need to rethink what MIDI velocity you apply to your kicks: 127 is your massive explosion level not your normal kick level in most daws that do notation to velocity conversions it is set as either fff (very very loud) or ffff (very very very loud). 100 is considered to be ff in most daw situations. 64 is normal or mf
 
bandcoach said:
the phrase ghost in drumming and most other instruments means to play quieter: a better descriptive term would be whisper notes

so you need to make a distinction between your average level and your loudest and your quietest

I think, based on what you have written above, that you need to rethink what MIDI velocity you apply to your kicks: 127 is your massive explosion level not your normal kick level in most daws that do notation to velocity conversions it is set as either fff (very very loud) or ffff (very very very loud). 100 is considered to be ff in most daw situations. 64 is normal or mf
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Hmm interesting. When I used to use FL Studio the stand velocity of everything was around 75. Do you think I should change my velocity in my preferences to 64? Does it even matter about the velocity since I will be mixing down anyways?
 
When i hear the term ghost kick, to me that is a kick or ANY single shot that is used to trigger a side chain and isn't audile at all.

If i was makin a 'ghost kick' id duplicate my original kick track, set its output to sends only and then input it to a bus that I set as the side chain trigger. I have no doubt that bandcoach is right about the 'actual' definition of a ghost kick. But nowadays when the term ghost kick is said it usually refers to something being used as a sidechain key that is 100% un-audible.
 
Yumid said:
When i hear the term ghost kick, to me that is a kick or ANY single shot that is used to trigger a side chain and isn't audile at all.

If i was makin a 'ghost kick' id duplicate my original kick track, set its output to sends only and then input it to a bus that I set as the side chain trigger. I have no doubt that bandcoach is right about the 'actual' definition of a ghost kick. But nowadays when the term ghost kick is said it usually refers to something being used as a sidechain key that is 100% un-audible.
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I thought Ghost-Kicks are the quiet kicks that come right before your main kick, no? I think you're supposed to hear it.
 
StanleySteamer said:
Hmm interesting. When I used to use FL Studio the stand velocity of everything was around 75. Do you think I should change my velocity in my preferences to 64? Does it even matter about the velocity since I will be mixing down anyways?
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75 is reasonable - the problem I perceive you having is that you have no dynamic headroom if most of your kicks are at 127 already - that becomes your de facto moderately loud level and everything else is quiet in comparison
 
Yumid said:
When i hear the term ghost kick, to me that is a kick or ANY single shot that is used to trigger a side chain and isn't audile at all.

If i was makin a 'ghost kick' id duplicate my original kick track, set its output to sends only and then input it to a bus that I set as the side chain trigger. I have no doubt that bandcoach is right about the 'actual' definition of a ghost kick. But nowadays when the term ghost kick is said it usually refers to something being used as a sidechain key that is 100% un-audible.
Click to expand...

not even close to its meaning

the term ghost note has been in the teaching literature for the best part of 30 years and is used to refer to notes that are significantly quieter than the rest of the playing dynamic. Even a quick peruse through youtube drum lessons will show that this is still the preferred meaning of the term ghost kick and ghost snare and ghost hat

what you describe above is a specific artist talking about their technique of using a ghost channel (a channel that is not heard) to control mix events like side-chaining.

This is not new btw.

McCartney used this technique to clean up some guitar parts on his song "Coming Up" - the guitar was less than clean in terms of its rhythm so they used a cowbell to trigger a gate that was across the guitar channel to provide the rhythm required to it - this is why trying to play the guitar part for that song is so tricky given that there are envelope issues associated with the gate opening and closing on the guitar line
 
bandcoach said:
not even close to its meaning

the term ghost note has been in the teaching literature for the best part of 30 years and is used to refer to notes that are significantly quieter than the rest of the playing dynamic. Even a quick peruse through youtube drum lessons will show that this is still the preferred meaning of the term ghost kick and ghost snare and ghost hat

what you describe above is a specific artist talking about their technique of using a ghost channel (a channel that is not heard) to control mix events like side-chaining.

This is not new btw.

McCartney used this technique to clean up some guitar parts on his song "Coming Up" - the guitar was less than clean in terms of its rhythm so they used a cowbell to trigger a gate that was across the guitar channel to provide the rhythm required to it - this is why trying to play the guitar part for that song is so tricky given that there are envelope issues associated with the gate opening and closing on the guitar line
Click to expand...

Ok yah, obviously the definition you guys have is the proper one. As soon as I read your first post I knew mine was just a slang version of it. I only ever heard it how I described it from, like you said, other producers making a channel with a kick programmed how I mentioned above. Then they just call it their ghost kick. Im actually surprised, I've heard that in probably 15-20+ different videos and I've never once heard the actual definition of it until now.
 
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There's actually a quite good article on Wikipedia on ghost notes if you want more details.
 
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