EQ'ing separate notes in a sub bass

Gloopikat

New member
I suspect that someone somewhere must have covered this, but also find that people are generally more concerned with general tactics than the question that bugs me. My sub bass line contains five notes, with their lowest harmonics all below the 100Hz mark, naturally. In pursuit of level equality, I've gone to great lengths (aside from cutting below 20hz) to try and reduce each note's region accordingly, so that the loudest note is reduced a little more than the second loudest, and so on. I did this because no amount of soft compression allowed me to escape the squishy sound effect that comes with compressing sub bass.

My curve basically consisted of a smooth cut below 100Hz, interrupted by wavy dips with narrow Qs, increasing as they approached the deepest note. The problem was that the sub note closest to 100Hz (above which I planned to have the body of the bass) lacked energy - even though the main task of keeping the level difference to +/- 2Db difference was achieved (or it was some other audible or inaudible decibel problem). When I tried just to have a smooth slope below 100Hz, it left me with the problem of some notes naturally sounding louder than others. But since there were no harmonics to cut above the 100Hz mark, it left me stumped... there was literally nothing else to boost or cut.

My question is this: what needs to be sacrificed here - the audible loudness effect, or the decibel difference? How do artists get that incredibly even-sounding level across the whole 5-note progression in the sub region? All the advice I found is incredibly general.

My only other guess is that I was on the right track, but should use a limiter, set to to squish the quieter/louder notes into submission? Or maybe the wavy, incremental note EQ'ing isn't the way to go at all, and all I needed was just one smooth line of reduction below the 100Hz mark + limiter/compression to compensate for the louder nature of some notes?

For instance, this track contains three notes in relatively the same frequency range, but then there's also a note that's much deeper that completes the progression later for variety: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdAv8GxLGaY

Sorry for the boring description. Your advice will be much appreciated!
 
I understand what you are asking but would like to see an image of your eq and the actual notes that you use (note names/pitch) would help me help you. Some audio might also help.

I am inclined to think that your approach is not worth the effort, going so far as to suggest that perhaps the problem is not with the sub-bass but some other part of the mix.

Which compressors are you using (exact models i.e. who created the emulation as well as the make and model it is based on)
 
I fussed about this once a long time ago… not just with subs. Personally I really appreciate a natural harmonic / level variation in subs these days (in my tunes)… helps give more carry to sections… dmm dmm dmmm dmm BMM BMM dum dum dum dum...

But hey - my interests and the poor typed example don't help you with your immediate issue.

Keep in mind it may be:

Your room;
The patch you programmed / are using…
Physics (different power at different frequencies….

BUT: if you really need to craft that perfect level, you try bouncing the notes out separately and processing each one individually on its own track - this will be more effective than a "one eq fits all" from what I think you're saying you're doing….

Hope some of that helps……..?
 
Thanks Bandcoach. I fear the problem is even simpler - Ableton Operator's uneven nature. I was dealing with an altered bass patch consisting of several layers. With this particular synth, the envelope is always moody, and you need to take care that each layer's attack portion isn't vastly different from another's. Having stripped the patch to almost just the bare sine wave, I quickly realized that it was an attack/decay matter. Funnily enough, there's no formula here, as it hits different peaks each time with very minimal changes, so I had to opt for a slower attack, and things magically sounded better, but, well, slower as well.

Anyway, discovered that another problem with my bass was that the deepest note was a B, which is obviously around 30Hz. That's a problem, because you need to leave it just audible enough, but when it is, it inevitably adds a lot of gain. Cutting it out is not an option either, as the following notes would all still continue to have their sub content, and the root note would just lose all its power. (Don't wish to waste your time with screenshots and audio).

To your question - no special compressors or brand names here. That is why I was asking about limiting and compression as the next step. Now that I'm just down to the desired sine + a little, quiet square on top, I guess it's time to think about compression. I did manage to get the relative attack levels to within less that 1Db of each other, however. Thanks for your input.
 
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jBam, thanks for your reply as well. I know what you mean, and your example makes sense. I don't think it's quite possible to really squish everything to within a tenth of a decibel anyway, without ruining things with limiting.

As per your interests, I actually might do well to listen to you in future, as your Soundcloud track is pretty much the sound I'm inspired by as well.

By the way, while we're at it, would like to ask you a follow-on question: that swinging main sound driving your track - was that a duplicated device across several channels, with the higher notes receiving a separate processing to the lower ones? Or something else?

Cheers man.

PS, visited your artist page. Great stuff. I'm a fan of Baroque as well. Great to get advise from someone actually releasing stuff I like!
 
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I used to over process my subs so much. I would think like you and try to eq every little part of it in hopes to make it fit perfectly, in the end all it did was turn into a waste of time though. The best outcomes for me have been when I happened to choose the drums that cooperate the best. Just make sure you give the bass the room it needs, and make sure it isn't too loud. Like bandcoach said, it's most likely another part of the mix that's causing the problem. If it's not sitting well with the kick, there's a few things that can typically get you on the right track if they can work together.

Cutting some of the sub frequencies below 50-100hz, it will bring out some of the higher harmonics. Use this if you need to make more room for the kick way down low.

Cutting some of the kicks sub frequencies can be extremely helpful at times. Use this when you want to let the sub take over that whole area so there's less competition.
 
Thanks, but perhaps I was unclear: the mix isn't my problem. I was talking about something else entirely. And I didn't say the bass overpowered the kick. If you read my post carefully, cutting below 100Hz isn't the issue here either, I'm well aware of the basics of EQing. Thanks for your reply though.
 
Ah, I see.. To be honest, I can't see very many people actually eq'ing every single bass note. Even so, it would usually end up sounding messy. Are you using a recorded bass or vst/sample? The practical way to go about this would be with a limiter though, I believe.. If you are getting that squishy sound with compression, you could try setting the ceiling on your limiter lower and raise the gain as needed. Although that may just reproduce that squishy sound you are talking about. Could you post a sample?
 
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the programming of the operator patch is probably the total cause (leaving a side the low B for now)

I'm minded to create it using a parallel pair of operators with the prime one being the one you have settled on now and the second consisting of not only a modulator but also having self modulation applied to the modulator to add the required noise component that you can use for the initial attack of your sub (so that it hits quickly)

I have some ideas of how to improve this using fm8 but would like to see/hear what you currently have a to know exactly which direction to take it
 
By the way, while we're at it, would like to ask you a follow-on question: that swinging main sound driving your track - was that a duplicated device across several channels, with the higher notes receiving a separate processing to the lower ones? Or something else? …...

Great to get advise from someone actually releasing stuff I like!

Hey mate… sorry for the delay -- Busy Busy… just got back from Florida USA and been super busy...

1st - thanks :)… really pleased that you you like my tunes, and thanks for the comment… I release tracks; get feedback from friends and DJs; but - random comments are really appreciated… I love writing tunes, but a part f me hopes other people like em too haha...

So:

That lead synth is one synth, processed all in on one channel. It's a Waldorf Pulse. Processing is roughly: EQ (cuts mainly, with maybe a few ducks and pushes) ---> Multiband Compressor / expander with mild settings (e.g. comp low 1.5:1; Low Mid 1.7:1; High Mid 1.7:1; High: 2:1… Expander with similar ratios, and used to pull parts of the sound out in the attack without overcrowding the sound…). Then I'll have a send reverb, most likely with a compressor side chained to a dummy kick to get a little pump and draw… I'm away from the studio, but that's most likely how it's set up… I may, however, have boosted some of the higher bands to tease out some more sparkle / shine (the boost here can get a nice brightness from a sound; but then the expander will cut the highs away avoiding harshness…)

Similar to my original post; I fuss less and less about super in depth processing and theory (it's good to understand theory fully; but then use this as a background concept to using your ears). It's amazing what you can achieve with a good eq / multi band comp/gate in modern music processing / control :)!

Hope that helps?!

Stayed tuned too - have two new tracks out in the next month (I think - I keep forgetting when releases are out!? haha…)
 
Guys, just a quick thank you after 4 months of absence. Just got back after a tough period, and saw this thread had slipped my mind at the time. Giant thank you as always to bandcoach (sadly, that patch is gone that you asked for), and JBam, for sharing your approach, it's a welcome creativity boost and makes perfect sense. Presently on your Soundcloud, listening to Betal, which is really nice!
 
If you ever feel like you have to go that far again, you might try multi-band compression.

GJ
 
Yes, the thought had crossed my mind, however, I went the simpler route: modified the peak value and attack on the sub patch in Operator, and just created an independent body from another synth. Ordinary compression afterwards did the trick of taming sudden peaks further. Thanks for your reply.
 
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