Drum Grooves, Rhythm and Composition....???

C

Chew_Bear

New member
Just finished reading up about drum kits on wikipedia and which instruments make up the parts of a standard drummer's equipment.

But....I am confused because I see there is obviously some variation and freedom in a drummer's choice for what he wants to use and why. Seems like there is 'no standard' and a drummer can have as little or as much of any particular instrument that he wants.

So...I am really confused when it comes to choosing drum instruments/parts for your groove/rhythm part.

Because....just as there is some freedom with an actual drummer....Is there a lot of freedom for a producer when it comes to choosing which instruments get to be inside of your drum group/groove....???

Basically...I am just confused as to why I hear...say a OPEN HI HAT in 1 song....but....when I listen to another song....It does not have a OPEN HI HAT and instead has a CLOSED HI HAT. Or better yet...it makes me more confused when I only hear a KICK, SNARE and CLAP. Therefore, the producer totally disregarded the other parts of a drum kit completely.

So...

1. Are there certain 'hard and fast' rules that dictate what should be in your drum group/groove...???

2. Is it going to come down to whatever genre and style you like to work in...???

3. Which instruments/parts make up the gold standard of your basic "drum kit"...??? (i.e. KICK, SNARE, TOM 1, TOM 2, OPEN HI HAT, CLOSED HI HAT, CRASH, RIDE...???)

How does a newbie producer start to figure out which instruments they think they want/need and which ones they don't for the drum group/groove...??? (i.e. If making a 'basic' 4-on-the-floor dance track...kick, snare and clap will probably do)
 
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Chew_Bear said:
Seems like there is 'no standard' and a drummer can have as little or as much of any particular instrument that he wants.
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This is correct.
I've seen drum kits with like, 8 different toms, two kicks, two snares and loads of cymbals, and I've seen drum kits that are just kick, hi-hat and snare. You don't have to include any part of a drum kit.
 
There are probably numerous "best practices" when it comes to playing drums on an actual drumset, but even then there are no rules. There's even less when you're not dealing with the physical aspects of a human playing drums. Do whatever you want.
 
I know a drummer that loves the flexibility of using two different snares set up at the same time, and even two different hats for different sounds.

I also know that we had a joke in the studio that you could tell the quality of a drummer by how little he brought with him to record. Because the bad drummers would bring everything (and feel compelled to have a giant kit to begin with): they'd roll in with five toms, seven cymbals, etc. And the most talented drummers would show up with a kick, snare, hat, crash, maybe one tom. We'd ask: don't you need more? He'd say: not for this project.

Because a good musician comes ready and prepped for his recording. He knows every note he will play.



Anyway...

I'd say go wherever your creative gut takes you.

I find I unconsciously drift towards a variety of drum elements in a groove when I'm looking for a more live, authentic sound. And I unconsciously drift towards simplicity when I want a basic electronic sound. Electronic sounds often don't call for many elements. (Though those elements could be stacked: a kick sample might be composed of two kick layers and a snare or clap layer.)

Don't follow the rules you know too closely, and don't search out new rules. Do what feels right. Take notes on songs you like if you need inspiration, but feel free to deviate from that as you feel inspired. Do what sounds right to you and your music will be better for it.
 
Milo Burke said:
I know a drummer that loves the flexibility of using two different snares set up at the same time, and even two different hats for different sounds.

I also know that we had a joke in the studio that you could tell the quality of a drummer by how little he brought with him to record. Because the bad drummers would bring everything (and feel compelled to have a giant kit to begin with): they'd roll in with five toms, seven cymbals, etc. And the most talented drummers would show up with a kick, snare, hat, crash, maybe one tom. We'd ask: don't you need more? He'd say: not for this project.

Because a good musician comes ready and prepped for his recording. He knows every note he will play.



Anyway...

I'd say go wherever your creative gut takes you.

I find I unconsciously drift towards a variety of drum elements in a groove when I'm looking for a more live, authentic sound. And I unconsciously drift towards simplicity when I want a basic electronic sound. Electronic sounds often don't call for many elements. (Though those elements could be stacked: a kick sample might be composed of two kick layers and a snare or clap layer.)

Don't follow the rules you know too closely, and don't search out new rules. Do what feels right. Take notes on songs you like if you need inspiration, but feel free to deviate from that as you feel inspired. Do what sounds right to you and your music will be better for it.
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Basically...this is what I am trying to get at....and that is....

Since I am wanting to produce mostly EDM/Dance/Bass electronic type music....

Is it 'safe' to say that I don't have to include the more classical 'acoustic' or natural sounding drum instruments/sounds.....and instead.....choose whatever drum sounds I deem is 'cool' and/or 'hot' for what ever genre/style/feel I want to create....right....???

And if so....I am pretty much spending wasted time using these "natural" acoustic drum kit samples and instead should try and find drum samples that would fit my style a lot more. Better yet...get into drum sound design and just make my own drum sounds.
 
"Safe" is also extremely uninteresting. No, you don't have to include anything, but maybe you can, despite it not being "conventional" in EDM. I don't think experimenting in that area simply because most other people are so predictable should be called "waste of time". It's part of the process of finding your own sound.
 
Chew_Bear said:
Basically...this is what I am trying to get at....and that is....

Since I am wanting to produce mostly EDM/Dance/Bass electronic type music....

Is it 'safe' to say that I don't have to include the more classical 'acoustic' or natural sounding drum instruments/sounds.....and instead.....choose whatever drum sounds I deem is 'cool' and/or 'hot' for what ever genre/style/feel I want to create....right....???

And if so....I am pretty much spending wasted time using these "natural" acoustic drum kit samples and instead should try and find drum samples that would fit my style a lot more. Better yet...get into drum sound design and just make my own drum sounds.
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Drums are a huge huge part of EDM of every kind and there is a huge huge range of sounds used- more so than any other genre.

Just talking about say, the snare- most house tracks use a clap, dubstep artists have huge powerful snares layered with white noise and tom sounds, jungle artists use snares chopped straight out of an old vinyl record, Burial uses some cross-stick sample, other people use finger snaps, you get the mefjus-type pitched up snares, trap snares with rolls.... the list is endless.



If you have a particular type of snare that you want to get hold of, we can help you. We can't tell you how you should make your own music- that's only up to you.
 
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Basically....This is how I understand it.....and maybe where the confusion lies......

I guess....There are 2 types of drum sounds/styles...right....???.....

A. The Natural, Raw and/or 'Acoustic' type drum samples/sounds that are recorded straight from a traditional drum kit in a professional recording studio. And that is used primarily in your traditional HipHop, Pop/R&B, Rock, Top40 and contemporary type music. (Pretty much any genre that is NOT EDM, electronica or some kind of experimental type stuff).

Although I will say.....that more and more 'modern / Todays' hiphop/rap music....is starting to use more experimental/distorted/processed type drum sounds.

Than....there is....

B. The mainstream EDM, electronica, dance and experimental type music that has always 'traditionally' used "Sound Design" and distorting/mangling/processing for its drum sounds.

Although I will say....(theoretically)....the EDM/dance scene has always used 'traditional'/natural drum sounds to begin with. The only difference is that they 'needed/wanted' to change the sounds with distortion/mangling/processing....in order to sound different and unique from the mainstream genres.

I also understand that even to this day....some EDM artists/songs will still use natural/acoustic sounding drums if thats the sound they are going after.....BUT....on a whole / 'generalisation'.....EDM/Dance/Bass/Electronica will always 'deviate' from the mainstream/norm and use drum sounds that are distorted, mangled and processed...VS...natural/raw drum sounds....correct....???

Therefore....

I am confused because I am thinking that I want to be somewhat....'in the middle' of the spectrum and have a sound that is 'not' natural/raw....but yet....not too distorted/mangled/processed either.

For example...I know that 'HARDSTYLE' EDM....contains Kick drums that are very distorted, mangled and processed. As a musical genre...its music I like and can listen to. But from a producer/DJ/audio engineering perspective....its not a sound/style that I like. I feel the distorted drum sounds are way too nasty sounding and are a little overwhelming at times.

On the other hand...I don't want to use natural drum sounds that seem like everyone already uses and that you can hear everywhere.

What I do like is.....

Dance, Dubstep, Trap, Twerk and Bass music....as they tend to use drum sounds that are kind of....'in the middle'. Not too distorted like in hardstyle....BUT....just processed and mangled enough to sound different and unique from your mainstream Pop/R&B, Top40, rock.

Some examples of EDM/Trap/Dubstep producer's drums I like: Skrillex, Porter Robinson, Deadmau5, Seven Lions, Deorro, Flosstradamus, Borgore, Bass Nectar, Flux Pavillion, Datsik, Yellow Claw etc.

Some examples of hiphip/rap producer's drums I like: Dr Dre, DJ Mustard, E40 etc.

Or.....Am I totally wrong....??? And that it doesn't matter what style/genre you like and/or want to produce.....Because now-a-days....it seems like everyone just uses "each other's" sounds and its all just one big melting pot where you can choose whatever drum sounds you like....no matter if its the most distorted drum sound you ever heard or the most beautiful natural drum kit you ever used....???

Hopefully you guys understand what I am getting at.

Thanks for all the introspection and suggestions/tips guys.
 
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Chew_Bear said:
Or.....Am I totally wrong....??? And that it doesn't matter what style/genre you like and/or want to produce.....Because now-a-days....it seems like everyone just uses "each other's" sounds and its all just one big melting pot where you can choose whatever drum sounds you like....no matter if its the most distorted drum sound you ever heard or the most beautiful natural drum kit you ever used....???
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This. I'm not saying you're "totally wrong", but you're drawing yourself into a corner by trying to categorize the hell out of everything beforehand. Use sounds that you like. Don't think too hard whether or not what their origin or "intended use" is (because that's just someone else's preconception at best).
 
You could put all drum sounds on a scale from very very hard hitting and processed to softer and less over the top-

but bear in mind that not all the softer drum sounds will be natural, it is possible to have synthetic drums that aren't as aggressive- like original 909 samples or something
 
Most professional drummers keep there kits limited to what they need. This is why you will often see jazz drummers whom are arguably the most knowledgeable and technically proficient using such small set ups, but you might see a metal drummer with a much larger set. The real thing to do is listen to what sounds correct, I personally enjoy using as little variance as possible, try to get the most out of one sound.
 
Just another musing for why you should do it however you want:


In 2009-2010, I was getting into eliminating basically all the high frequencies on a kick drum. I didn't want a slap so much as a clean, taught rumble. To anchor the sound, but not to draw attention to it unless you have a beastly sub in your room.

With a track that had the kick borderline too loud, I had a client complain that I left the kick out of the song entirely. Turns out she was listening on laptop speakers. And I was working for a mastering engineer and played him some mixes, and he chewed me out saying it was all wrong.

Then, a little while later, we started getting sub-kick only style drum mixes in some popular bands. A couple years after that, it entered the urban scene. Now, when you listen to a Drake track with the now-popular "filtered drum" sound, it's all about rolling off the highs. In fact, the only high frequency content I often hear with these kicks isn't from the original sample, since it's low-passed so low, but the little flit of noise from a cheap compressor being abused so aggressively.


I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm certainly not. But I do wish I hadn't had that particular good instinct coached out of me.

So do what sounds good to you. Listen to a lot of music, so your taste continues to develop, but then engineer how you like things to sound.
 
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