Does anyone have tips for film scoring for a newbie
- Thread starter Olie
- Start date
Olie
Member
Few things i've picked up so far:
1) Smoothest transitions from silence to music happen when you place the start on a action (similar to cutting on action but with music)
2) Timing up something like punches landing perfectly (withing 2-3 frames) with a strong or medium beat adds a ton of impact to the music.
3) The music should be more repetitive than a song to not draw the watchers attention away but you want to keep adding elements (slowly) if you're trying to build up.
1) Smoothest transitions from silence to music happen when you place the start on a action (similar to cutting on action but with music)
2) Timing up something like punches landing perfectly (withing 2-3 frames) with a strong or medium beat adds a ton of impact to the music.
3) The music should be more repetitive than a song to not draw the watchers attention away but you want to keep adding elements (slowly) if you're trying to build up.
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rhythmgj
Character in Spades...
Good points above. The focus of the viewer should not be on the music, yet it will and must underscore and enhance the action and mood and should be composed in that light.
Pacing-- Rhythm, tempo, to an extent dynamics, should come from/be informed by the way the film itself is cut. "Quick cut" scenes will require faster tempos.
GJ
Pacing-- Rhythm, tempo, to an extent dynamics, should come from/be informed by the way the film itself is cut. "Quick cut" scenes will require faster tempos.
GJ
Olie
Member
Few more things I've picked up:
1) If you want music to start on a chilled out scene it's best to either start it at the beginning of the cut or if you don't want to do that, have it slowly fade in and avoid any abrupt feeling stops.
2) The music should blend with the audio of the video as if the video's audio is the lead instrument.
3) You want to be able to *easily* hear both the music and the video, the range for this seems to be around -10 to -15dbs for the music in relation to the loudest point on the video's audio. The higher range of volumes that are acceptably within this range should be reserved for more intense scenes while the lower ones for less intense scenes.
4) Structure of the music doesn't matter although i would keep everything in even bars and adjust the tempo according to this unless you're making some weird experimental shit, even then it might not be a great idea unless the video somehow fits.
5) A good way to start is to measure how long a scene is precisely from start to end at the cuts, take note of the intensity of the scene then find a tempo that fits with the intensity and the length of the scene. There's a lot of leeway in the tempo because the length you're using is undetermined. If you see a cut somewhere in a scene, you can get the music to align (on an even bar) perfectly with it, getting a tempo and length of music that matches perfectly with each cut is more difficult however, so pick the right cuts to add in elements or take them away (or do whatever you want to do). Ending on an even bar is more important that adding or taking away elements on an even bar.
1) If you want music to start on a chilled out scene it's best to either start it at the beginning of the cut or if you don't want to do that, have it slowly fade in and avoid any abrupt feeling stops.
2) The music should blend with the audio of the video as if the video's audio is the lead instrument.
3) You want to be able to *easily* hear both the music and the video, the range for this seems to be around -10 to -15dbs for the music in relation to the loudest point on the video's audio. The higher range of volumes that are acceptably within this range should be reserved for more intense scenes while the lower ones for less intense scenes.
4) Structure of the music doesn't matter although i would keep everything in even bars and adjust the tempo according to this unless you're making some weird experimental shit, even then it might not be a great idea unless the video somehow fits.
5) A good way to start is to measure how long a scene is precisely from start to end at the cuts, take note of the intensity of the scene then find a tempo that fits with the intensity and the length of the scene. There's a lot of leeway in the tempo because the length you're using is undetermined. If you see a cut somewhere in a scene, you can get the music to align (on an even bar) perfectly with it, getting a tempo and length of music that matches perfectly with each cut is more difficult however, so pick the right cuts to add in elements or take them away (or do whatever you want to do). Ending on an even bar is more important that adding or taking away elements on an even bar.
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AudioPhorm
New member
Listen and study hard the film scores and composers you appreciate most.
I think this is the best thing to do, but then, I am no great composer.
I think this is the best thing to do, but then, I am no great composer.
Olie
Member
I would do this, but only in the context of the scene(s) the music spans across otherwise you're just learning how to compose a song like them, not score film.
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Epsilon-144
Musician and Producer
Does anybody, or has anybody here done any work with short film scoring? I really want to get involved in it. I don't have much insight to offer but I'll stick around to learn from everyone.
Olie
Member
Could you explain the difference for us newbies?
Find something to edit and score, fastest way to learn.
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AudioPhorm
New member
I'd disagree with that but, ok.
What I mean is you can learn techniques and styles of innovation from standing on the shoulders of giants instead of starting from the ground up. If you pay attention to the details of what others have already done, there is a lot to be learned...and probably the best of the best film score producers do not adhere to textbook lecture.
By the logic stated, all painters/musicians or any other artists influenced by those before them would have painted/composed/played just like those who they were inspired by. What we see from the evolution of all art forms in the hands of true talent, is absolutely contrary. I honestly didn't realize you were looking for such a technical perspective on the "how and why". It works for mathmeticians though. Frame 0:00:00.125 theory.
Olie
Member
What lol. You didn't explain at all why it would be more beneficial to hear compositions outside of the visuals they were made to go into.
It also works for musicians... music theory and the tons of literature on concepts and specifics to mix and master your music. If you're not on this forum to learn how others do things and develop your own style from the things they share why are you here?
You're saying to stand on the shoulders of giants and completely ignore anything you can learn from textbooks, make up your mind, some giants have wrote textbooks.
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AudioPhorm
New member
look man, you asked the question, not me. (which was quite vague i might add) all i did was make a suggestion, now youre attempting to put words in my mouth about my philosophy on how it should be done. i think you misinterpreted my message and are attempting to disparage me with that [if you aren't here to learn then why are you here] blanket defense statement that insecure people use, but if you pay attention to detail, you are challenging me with a rephrasing of the very idea that i proposed...
perhaps i assumed too much in thinking that someone who was preparing themselves to delve into this might have researched how others have created music based upon the visuals they were presented with. how things change, rearrange, respond, create mood, darkness, light, emotion, and how the element of silence is used...
Obviously EVERY project will be different based upon the visuals of each individual film. theres no way someone could adapt a film score for each individual project without the film itself. Are you asking how a composer might take previously written sketches of a composition and then apply it to a score? are you asking how the technical aspects of a score are applied to time? because that would make total sense and i must have misunderstood.
i never said completely ignore anything. that would obviously be a ridiculous remark.
perhaps i assumed too much in thinking that someone who was preparing themselves to delve into this might have researched how others have created music based upon the visuals they were presented with. how things change, rearrange, respond, create mood, darkness, light, emotion, and how the element of silence is used...
Obviously EVERY project will be different based upon the visuals of each individual film. theres no way someone could adapt a film score for each individual project without the film itself. Are you asking how a composer might take previously written sketches of a composition and then apply it to a score? are you asking how the technical aspects of a score are applied to time? because that would make total sense and i must have misunderstood.
i never said completely ignore anything. that would obviously be a ridiculous remark.
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Film scoring is a lot different than making music for artists or yourself.
1. Study film
2. Study film scores
3. Get use to aiding emotion
4. Make sure your chops are together
5. Learn orchestration
6, Make sure your daw can handle video
7. Learn how to edit well in your daw
I can go on with basics. Another thing I'd suggest is starting writing other time sigs outside of 4/4. When you start spotting film and dropping those markers, you'll have to change time sig a few times throughout the composition to make certain hits and moments land on the current timecode marks of the film
If, what I just mentioned (after number 7) is going over your head, toss that in the basics that you need to learn as well.
A soundtrack has to work in tandem with the visuals whereas a piece of music, regardless of style, written for it's own sake, can follow it's own form.
For example if a scene changes the soundtrack (probably) has to change. It doesn't matter what the music wants to do, where it is in it's progression, it has to follow the scene. This is one of the features of an actual soundtrack that make it sound different to a piece of music in the style of a soundtrack. It does things that don't make sense musically, but make sense in the context of a soundtrack.
That gives rise to specific production challenges plus a bunch of others. Like you would probably need a much more structured workflow, so that you can go back and change things easily, as well as a grasp of all the other technicalities like syncing to picture mentioned above.
Further a piece of music written for it's own sake can never be 'wrong'. A soundtrack can be wrong. And it's likely someone else's definition of right that you're aiming for.
All that being said I don't think it's that hard to try it out. The immediate technical hurdle is being able to set up a timeline that you can write to and hit hit-points. You can find tutorials about that. Once you're used to doing that you can progress into the finer points like thinking in more detail about where and when to use music. You need to jump in, I think, make mistakes, try again. Like anything. Find a scene and rescore it. You'll soon see the issues you have to overcome.
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Epsilon-144
Musician and Producer
Films can also use sounds from songs, but I guess that's more along the lines of soundtrack music, huh? Scoring is like specific for a film. I've done music for a while but nothing with film or tv.
I'll look into it though, it does sound fun. It's like the modern version of a play. I think it takes the most music knowledge and entertainment talent.
I'll look into it though, it does sound fun. It's like the modern version of a play. I think it takes the most music knowledge and entertainment talent.
Olie
Member
Interesting info, you didn't clear up what a film score is though and the differences between it and a soundtrack. I always assumed film scores also followed the scenes too.
Scores are created specifically for the the film. Soundtracks are generally popular songs sprinkled throughout. Sometimes composed pieces for a film can be part of the soundtrack thus what is sold in stores.
That's the difference
Terry Cano
New member
Film Composing
There is a big difference between"Underscoring"and songs used in a film.
I have not been impressed with most of what I hear in young composers starting out with the exception of those from a few schools. There seems to be a thought that "I write one type of style or mood.....and it will fit everything and that is simply not true". I have heard demo reels of four songs....and my comment is there are not four cues here. They are all in the same key, same chords, the tempos are different and the feel is different.....but basically you have one cue with three slight variations.
I'll say here is your assignment: Write a 30 sec love scene with only Piano and Cello.......then the gun shots start at 31 sec your instruments are Piano, Cello, Brass, incld French Horns Drums and Perc as the couple runs through the woods into a busy street at 36 sec.. back in to the woods at 45 secs jumps from a Waterfall......end cue 51 sec
Most students usually call a week later and say this is hard.....I don't even know where to start.
Film scoring is not about plug ins, Sound Libraries, it is about capturing a emotion, either under playing or over playing the scene into the next scene this is done with notes and rhythms . . . first then sounds
It is a well kept secret that the busy composers have a staff of composers, orchestrates,music copyist, etc. not 'cause they can't write in a variety of styles but 'cause they don't have the time with the deadlines. This is especially true in TV where the turn around times are brutal.
This is not meant to scare you but more to help you decide where to go next with your own path.
Musically
Terry Cano
There is a big difference between"Underscoring"and songs used in a film.
I have not been impressed with most of what I hear in young composers starting out with the exception of those from a few schools. There seems to be a thought that "I write one type of style or mood.....and it will fit everything and that is simply not true". I have heard demo reels of four songs....and my comment is there are not four cues here. They are all in the same key, same chords, the tempos are different and the feel is different.....but basically you have one cue with three slight variations.
I'll say here is your assignment: Write a 30 sec love scene with only Piano and Cello.......then the gun shots start at 31 sec your instruments are Piano, Cello, Brass, incld French Horns Drums and Perc as the couple runs through the woods into a busy street at 36 sec.. back in to the woods at 45 secs jumps from a Waterfall......end cue 51 sec
Most students usually call a week later and say this is hard.....I don't even know where to start.
Film scoring is not about plug ins, Sound Libraries, it is about capturing a emotion, either under playing or over playing the scene into the next scene this is done with notes and rhythms . . . first then sounds
It is a well kept secret that the busy composers have a staff of composers, orchestrates,music copyist, etc. not 'cause they can't write in a variety of styles but 'cause they don't have the time with the deadlines. This is especially true in TV where the turn around times are brutal.
This is not meant to scare you but more to help you decide where to go next with your own path.
Musically
Terry Cano
It's funny you mention this. I quickly realized (years ago) how much of my daw I didn't understand during my first spotting session. How many time signatures I didn't know how to write to.