Diatonic Triads

TDOT

New member
What up FP?
I'm doing a little work on my music theory and got stumped here on a new topic.

So far I know my
Major and Minor Scales
Major and Minor Chords as well as inverted
7th Chords

now I'm on Diatonic Triads (musictheory.net)
and I understand how to find the triads in a particular scale but the site doesn't really explain their siginificance?
Why are they important?
How do they relate to one another?
Triads are just chords in a particular scale but why does that matter?
How are they used in terms of composition?

Can anyone hlep me out?
 
Diatonic triads form the backbone of all approaches to harmony (of course these days we also need to take into account that these are no longer diatonic triads but septatonic triads, given that we are as like as not to use one of the modes of the major scale instead of the major/minor dichotomy that we have in the past)

So, in respect to the possibilities:

Scale/Mode|Scale tone1234567
Major/IonianIiiiiiIVVvivii[sup]b5[/sup]
"C ~ CEGDm ~ DFAEm ~ EGBF ~ FACG ~ GBDAm ~ ACEBm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF
Dorian minoriii[sup]b[/sup]IIIIVvvi[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]VII
"Dm ~ DFAEm ~ EGBF ~ FACG ~ GBDAm ~ ACEBm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDFC ~ CEG
Phrygian minori[sup]b[/sup]II[sup]b[/sup]IIIivv[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]VIvii
"Em ~ EGBF ~ FACG ~ GBDAm ~ ACEBm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDFC ~ CEGDm ~ DFA
Lydian majorIIIiii[sup]#[/sup]iv[sup]b5[/sup]Vvivii
"F ~ FACG ~ GBDAm ~ ACEBm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDFC ~ CEGDm ~ DFAEm ~ EGB
Mixolydian majorIiiiii[sup]b5[/sup]IVvvi[sup]b[/sup]VII
"G ~ GBDAm ~ ACEBm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDFC ~ CEGDm ~ DFAEm ~ EGBF ~ FAC
Minor/Aeolianiii[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]IIIivv[sup]b[/sup]VI[sup]b[/sup]VII
"Am ~ ACEBm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDFC ~ CEGDm ~ DFAEm ~ EGBF ~ FACG ~ GBD
Locrian diminishedi[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]II[sup]b[/sup]iiiiv[sup]b[/sup]v[sup]b[/sup]VI[sup]b[/sup]vii
"Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDFC ~ CEGDm ~ DFAEm ~ EGBF ~ FACG ~ GBDAm ~ ACE

You can quickly see, I hope, as we move through each of the modes, notes move to the left and so do the related chords; i.e. in a given major key, all modes use the same chords, only shifted to reflect the starting note.

Diatonic harmony is based on the concept that everything can be reduced to a V-I relationship in the end, hence the revered term, Cycle of Fifths (Fourths if you are a jazzer):

I-IV-vii[sup]b5[/sup]-iii-vi-ii-V-I
in C major this is
C - F - Bm[sup]b5[/sup] - Em - Am - Dm - G - C

An equally important part of the Diatonic tradition is the elevation (raising/sharpening) of the the leading tone in the Natural minor/Aeolian mode creating the Harmonic minor and thus creating a Major chord V instead of the weaker minor chord v found in the natural minor.

The Harmonic minor and its modes are as follows:

Scale/Mode|Scale tone12
[td=align:center]3[/td][td=align:center]4[/td][td=align:center]5[/td][td=align:center]6[/td][td=align:center]7[/td]
[tr][td]Harmonic Minor[/td][td=align:center]i[/td][td=align:center]ii[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]III[sup]#5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]iv[/td][td=align:center]V[/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]VI[/td][td=align:center]vii[sup]b5[/sup][/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mode II[/td][td=align:center]i[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]II[sup]#5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]iii[/td][td=align:center]IV[/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]V[/td][td=align:center]vi[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]vii[/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mode III[/td][td=align:center]I[sup]#5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]ii[/td][td=align:center]III[/td][td=align:center]IV[/td][td=align:center][sup]#[/sup]v[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]vi[/td][td=align:center]vii[sup]b5[/sup][/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mode IV[/td][td=align:center]i[/td][td=align:center]II[/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]III[/td][td=align:center][sup]#[/sup]iv[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]v[/td][td=align:center]vi[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]VII[sup]#5[/sup][/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mode V[/td][td=align:center]I[/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]II[/td][td=align:center]iii[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]iv[/td][td=align:center]v[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]VI[sup]#5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]vii[/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mode VI[/td][td=align:center]I[/td][td=align:center][sup]#[/sup]ii[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]iii[/td][td=align:center][sup]#[/sup]iv[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]V[sup]#5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]vi[/td][td=align:center]VII[/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mode VII[/td][td=align:center]i[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center][sup]b[/sup]ii[/td][td=align:center]iii[sup]b5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]IV[sup]#5[/sup][/td][td=align:center]v[/td][td=align:center]VI[/td][td=align:center][sup]bb[/sup]VII[/td][/tr]
[tr=bgcolor:#ddd][td=align:center]"[/td][td]G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup] ~ G[sup]#[/sup]BD[/td][td]Am ~ ACE[/td][td]Bm[sup]b5[/sup] ~ BDF[/td][td]C[sup](#5)[/sup] ~ CEG[sup]#[/sup][/td][td]Dm ~ DFA[/td][td]E ~ EG[sup]#[/sup]B[/td][td]F ~ FAC[/td][/tr]


The modes of the Harmonic Minor form the basis of many Middle-Eastern cultural musics, particularly Klezmer and the various Maqams used in a variety of Arabic musical forms and traditions.

Usage of the Harmonic minor in creating chord progressions, is similar to that of the Major, with various additional types of permitted chordal movement, particularly with the two min[sup]b5[/sup] (diminished triads) chords.

I have written about progression and cadences (the basis of most musical progressions) elsewhere on fp.....


I prefer min[sup]b5[/sup] to [sup]o[/sup] when describing diminished triads as the term is ana exact statement of how the triad is constructed - a minor 3rd and a [sup]b[/sup]5th (diminished 5th) above a common root note

Roman numeral usage is based on describing tones above the root/tonic of each scale as if it were some altered note within the parallel (tonic) major scale
 
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Thanks bandcoach, you mentioning the cycle of fifths makes it a little easier to understand, seeing that each diatonic triad in a particular scale are chords played in the cycle of fifths related to that specific key. By determining the diatonic triads of any given key, we then know the cycle of fifths.
Would it be safe to say then, based on your example, that if I'm in the key of Dm, for example, I'm using a Dorian Minor Scale?
Also if I didn't have a cycle of fifths chart handy which I currently use, determing my diatonic triads for any key, I could determine the chords assigned to each roman numeral in order for me to produce chord progressions?

Sorry if I'm confusing, so much info to take in at once.

Also maye you can explain this,
in my cycle of fifths chart say for example im I'm the key of C, my iii = Em chord, but above the Em there's a small m7, does that mean that I could play either Em or Em7?

Appreciate your help by the way
 
Thanks bandcoach, you mentioning the cycle of fifths makes it a little easier to understand, seeing that each diatonic triad in a particular scale are chords played in the cycle of fifths related to that specific key. By determining the diatonic triads of any given key, we then know the cycle of fifths.

Would it be safe to say then, based on your example, that if I'm in the key of Dm, for example, I'm using a Dorian Minor Scale?
Not necessarily - the Key of D minor should be based on the Major scale of F - i.e. it has a B[sup]b[/sup] in it. if it were the Harmonic minor, then it would have both B[sup]b[/sup] and C[sup]#[/sup]. If we were to use the Key of C major from which to derive your Dm key, then yes it would be D Dorian.
Also if I didn't have a cycle of fifths chart handy which I currently use, determining my diatonic triads for any key, I could determine the chords assigned to each roman numeral in order for me to produce chord progressions?
Yes.
Also maye you can explain this,
in my cycle of fifths chart say for example im I'm the key of C, my iii = Em chord, but above the Em there's a small m7, does that mean that I could play either Em or Em7?

Yes; any chord can be extended to the 7th or the 9th or beyond - in each case it is a matter of reading through the currently active scale starting on the chord naming note and skipping every other note until you have reached the required extension.

In C major for an Em[sup]9[/sup] this would be:

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C​

In G Major for Em[sup]9[/sup] this would be

G-A-B-C-D-E-F[sup]#[/sup]-G-A-B-C-D-E-F[sup]#[/sup]-G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G​

In D Major for Em[sup]9[/sup] this would be

D-E-F[sup]#[/sup]-G-A-B-C[sup]#[/sup]-D-E-F[sup]#[/sup]-G-A-B-C[sup]#[/sup]-D-E-F[sup]#[/sup]-G-A-B-C[sup]#[/sup]-D​

I use three octaves of the relevant scale so that I can extend up to the 13th for any starting note (A 13th is 2 notes short of two octaves, so If I start on the leading tone of the scale, I need another two octaves (almost) to get to the last note in the leading tone diminished 13th (7-2-4-6-1-3-5)

I could of course just use chord spelling based on scale tones, but this could lead to the wrong notes being written - safer to use the notes of the scale laid out and take those that are needed for the particular chord.....
 
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