Confused by tempo scale/active scale section of TR-909/Drumazon

dactyl

New member
I bought Drumazon a couple days ago, which is a clone of the TR-909, and after watching videos and reading the manual, I still don't understand the tempo scale section. I have included an image below of the section I am talking about. The manual says, "Tempo scale can be described as the number of steps per quarter note. Default value is four steps per quarter note. Successively counting from the bottom there are: 8 steps per quarter note, 4 steps per quarter note, 6 steps and 3 steps per quarter note. Tempo scale is switched by the Scale LED’s on Scale bar." In my DAW, the bottom option aligns perfectly with 4/4 time. But I cannot seem to find the time signatures which fit the other 3 options. If someone could explain exactly what each of these options are and the time signatures with which they correlate, I would really appreciate it.

Here is the section of the instrument I'm talking about:
tempdrumazon.jpg

 
Last edited:
Disclaimer-- I'm not a 909 guy. But I am a rhythm guy, and I think I can explain what's going on.

The time signature stays 4/4. They do seem to have a bit of a confusing (wrong note values?) graphic, but the top line is sub-divided into 8th notes (instead of "1,2,3,4," you count "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and"). The second line from the top, each smaller note should have two flags, not one, as it looks like they break it down to 16th notes (counted "1 ee and uh, 2 ee and uh," etc., usually abbreviated as "1 e + a, 2 e + a," etc.)... The next line (right above the quarter notes) appears to show half notes (each note value lasts for two quarter notes, or, conversely, half the duration of a whole note).

The way they have the sub-divisions grouped, it almost looks like they're talking about a triplet pattern, but that's the confusing part of the way they've chosen to display the sub-divisions. It's pretty simple, if you know your whole notes, half notes, quarters, 8ths, and 16ths. If not, try watching this: https://www.khanacademy.org/partner...on-1-note-values-duration-and-time-signatures .

GJ
 
Ah, I get it now. I just put a 4 on the floor kick pattern in and went through each option counting the way you said and it seems to fit. Thanks a bunch.
 
Last edited:
Serious question(s)-- If so, why aren't they written as triplets (properly)? Why does counting them as even sub-divisions work? (I don't know; just going by OP's response)... Why is the line that seems to be 16ths written with 8ths? And-- they are not all triplets for sure, as the half-note groups do not match half-note triplets... What is going on? (No way to listen to find out, as I don't have a 909 or the indicated emulation software, but something is clearly "off" in the graphic representation).

In other words, they do (sort of) look like triplets, but when you look at the base-line quarter note pulse, they *do* line-up as straight 8ths and 16ths. What am I missing?

GJ
 
Last edited:
Yeah, it's confusing but not terribly complicated, when you actually try it - the problem stems from the buttons: if you had triplets on the same scale as the regular 16th notes, you'd have to have one step button between the steps. So on the top two lines you get triplets - 1/8T & 1/16T - represented by 3 and 6 step buttons respectively (which means on the top row you don't get a full 4/4 bar with just 16 steps, while on the 2nd row the 4/4 is only 12 steps). The bottom row is the default - 16th notes (4/4), and next up is 32th notes (2/4). So the black blocks always denote quarter notes, which is kind of the key to understanding the whole thing. Does it make sense? If not, it's easy enough to download the Drumazon demo and try it out, running one instance with the "straight" 16th note timing and another one with the triplet timing.
 
this is a common "problem" on the interfaces (read screened onto the surface) above the step buttons of the 808/909/707 family

for any of the triplet divisions they expect that you will limit your steps to 12

i.e.
12345678910111213141516
1&2&3&4&
1--2--3--4--5--6
1e&u2e&u3e&u4e&u
[

is how I always envisioned it when working with the 707 in the mid 80s to mid 90's

i.e. I always conceived of this middle line as being dotted quarters i.e. compound meter

the problem with drum machines of course is that they treat the movement to that line as a l'istesso tempo with the cell value remaining the same regardless of the underlying pulse/division of the beat.

More bluntly the tempo in bpm is always rendered as quarters per beat, the scaling within the beat (what we (as trained musicians/composers) would call the division of the beat) is either 8ths or triplet 8ths or 16ths. To get triplet 16ths you would use a tempo twice as fast and apply the triplet 8ths a the sub-division of the beat
 
Last edited:
Why does counting them as even sub-divisions work? (I don't know; just going by OP's response)...

Yeah, sorry I just quickly went through last night and didn't think to turn on a click and I think I just made it seem like the even sub-divisions worked in my head. I did it with a click this morning and it doesn't line up. I've only been taking classical music lessons for about 6 months, and still struggle with rhythm quite a bit.

Thanks everyone for the responses. I definitely think I get it now. Going to try when I get home from work today.
 
Last edited:
Ah. OK guys, thanks for the explanation (but I think to make the math work in my head, I might actually still need to download the software to play with. When working with drum-machines, I always had some tricks to cheating different feels, odd times, and simulated rubato endings, but they are all different and I'd never worked with the 707-909). So, long story short, I'm glad dactyl knows what he's doing now!

GJ
 
Back
Top