Coming up with chord progression

AfroThunder

AfroThunder

Member
How do yall come up with good chord progressions?
Is it just trial and error or do have a set "formula" that you go by...
Cuz for the life of me i cant come up with anything good or something that interests what i want to make at all....
 
https://www.futureproducers.com/for...racticing-musician-lazy-beatmaker-lol-414068/

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...osing-sound-design/circle-fifths-help-408962/

I would ammend the last by fixing this table to be a little more useful

ChordGoes to
Iany chord
iiIV,V,vii[sup]b5[/sup]
iiiii,IV,vi
IVI,iii,V,vii[sup]b5[/sup]
VI,vi,IV
viii,IV,V,I
vii[sup]b5[/sup]I,iii

to be this

ChordGoes to-Examplesin C
Iany chord-CC, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]
iiIV,V,vii[sup]b5[/sup]-DmF, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]
iiiii,IV,vi-EmDm, F, Am
IVI,iii,V,vii[sup]b5[/sup]-FC, Em, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]
VI,vi,IV-GC, Am, F
viii,IV,V,I-AmDm, F, G, C
vii[sup]b5[/sup]I,iii-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]C, Em
 
i get how to put chords together seperatly, i know bout adding 7ths and 9ths, and i understand inversions, and i have an understanding of the chart bandcoach produced, my problem is say i start out with one chord that i like, i go thru all the chords possible in the scale but i cant find what im hearing in my head if that makes any sense.
 
AfroThunder said:
i get how to put chords together seperatly, i know bout adding 7ths and 9ths, and i understand inversions, and i have an understanding of the chart bandcoach produced, my problem is say i start out with one chord that i like, i go thru all the chords possible in the scale but i cant find what im hearing in my head if that makes any sense.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do get that. All that says is that your first chord is not the tonic chord of the key your head is working in, i.e. it is not chord I/i but some other chord, like chord IV/iv or V/v... this aural confusion is perhaps the real issue.


So, if you think you are in C/Am, you might actually be in F/Dm or G/Em

and we would extend the table of chords found within key to be the following for easy cross reference across these three keys

ChordGoes to-Examplesin C-Examplesin F-Examplesin G
Iany chord-CC, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-FF, Gm, Am, B[sup]b[/sup], C, Dm, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-GG, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#mb5
iiIV,V,vii[sup]b5[/sup]-DmF, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-GmB[sup]b[/sup], C, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-AmC, D, F#m[sup]b5[/sup]
iiiii,IV,vi-EmDm, F, Am-AmGm, B[sup]b[/sup], Dm-BmAm, C, Em
IVI,iii,V,vii[sup]b5[/sup]-FC, Em, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-B[sup]b[/sup]F, Am, C, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-CG, Bm, D, F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]
VI,vi,IV-GC, Am, F-CF, Dm, B[sup]b[/sup]-DG, Em, C
viii,IV,V,I-AmDm, F, G, C-DmGm, B[sup]b[/sup], C, F-EmAm, C, D, G
vii[sup]b5[/sup]I,iii-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]C, Em-Em[sup]b5[/sup]F, Am-F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]G, Bm

Making a larger table to encompass all keys is left as an exercise.
 
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mann bandcoach you always confuse me but i wanna understand what your saying. with the first post is it true that you work around the circle of 5th- so if you start with Am- then decide to do Dm you would look back in the chord column an see where thats goes. so then you may choose F which then leads to C- you basically try an work your way back to the tonic correct?? but the 7's an 9's is confusin -are you sayin that the first chord you play (tonic) isnt necc. they key your in- at that point the supporting arrangement would give a better idea of the key your in
 
The best way to learn how to make chord progressions is to deeply understand the music really. Learning the piano and music theory are pretty invaluable because then you can see what chord progressions are used to make what effect. Playing these things on the piano will help you think about chords in a more immediate and emotional way, and you'll see how chords work practically. After you've learned all this you can learn to break the rules and become more original. For example, I've made a few tracks where the 'chords progressions' are just two alternating sub bass notes with lots of crazy complicated notes and harmonies on top.

The point I'm trying to make is that music theory and playing the piano are the most helpful things when learning to make good chord progressions, but you should always consider that the track's main point of interest may lie somewhere other than the harmony.
 
odinnshred said:
The best way to learn how to make chord progressions is to deeply understand the music really. Learning the piano and music theory are pretty invaluable because then you can see what chord progressions are used to make what effect. Playing these things on the piano will help you think about chords in a more immediate and emotional way, and you'll see how chords work practically. After you've learned all this you can learn to break the rules and become more original. For example, I've made a few tracks where the 'chords progressions' are just two alternating sub bass notes with lots of crazy complicated notes and harmonies on top.

The point I'm trying to make is that music theory and playing the piano are the most helpful things when learning to make good chord progressions, but you should always consider that the track's main point of interest may lie somewhere other than the harmony.
Click to expand...

yeah ive been taking music theory and piano lessons for a while now... its been good to me but im still not at the point i need to be thou.....
 
Derrick Foreal said:
mann bandcoach you always confuse me but i wanna understand what your saying. with the first post is it true that you work around the circle of 5th- so if you start with Am- then decide to do Dm you would look back in the chord column an see where thats goes. so then you may choose F which then leads to C- you basically try an work your way back to the tonic correct??
Click to expand...
Your ultimate goal is the tonic chord; but that does not mean that you have to get there as soon as possible or even at all....; You can use the table above and either you can work your around the Cycle if you want or you could move to new chords that are possible based on your current chord (the chords on the LHS) to any one of the chords on the RHS - you may short-circuit the cycle that way or extend your roaming around it.
but the 7's an 9's is confusin -
Click to expand...
7ths and 9ths are simply additions to the chords above their current root based on
  • notes available from the scale, or
  • borrowed notes, treating your chords as secondary dominants; i.e. instead being based in the key, they based as if they were chord V of the following chord, or
  • borrowed notes without any internal or external reference to key center

V-of-V (secondary dominant) is a way of saying that chord ii becomes chord II and that seventh above is similar to what you would get if it were a dominant 7th (i.e. the 7th is a minor 7th or small 7th)

are you sayin that the first chord you play (tonic) isnt necc. they key your in- at that point the supporting arrangement would give a better idea of the key your in
Click to expand...

There is no rule anywhere in the vast realm of music theory that says your first chord must be the tonic or chord I/i. In fact it is a well settled idea that it takes at least two if not three chords to establish which chord is the tonic. I offered this insight more because of the possibility that the op was making the error/mistake of treating their first chord as the tonic chord; no more; no less......

@odinnshred: I do not think that I have ever said anything to the contrary, but sometimes stepping away from the keyboard and coming back with an idea is far more productive than simply bashing away like the infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters or keyboards with the hope that someday a masterpiece will emerge.....
 
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Bandcoach, I never said that I approve of "bashing away like the infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters or keyboards with the hope that someday a masterpiece will emerge.....", so I don't really know why you felt the need to say that or direct it at me.

There are other ways to compose than thinking and calculating. Whether I calculate slightly, or act completely on impulse, a little mess is easy enough to polish and clean up after you take the leap and put pen to paper (or keyboard/recorded audio to DAW, you get what I mean). I find that's a better way to compose than spending all my time making sure my harmonies follow the rules. But hey, that's just my way of trying to make my music original.
 
You mistake suggestion for fact; sir; I do not recommend spending time making infinite degrees of calculation over exploring.

However, this particular set of questions required explanations that cannot be found by gazing at the keys of the keyboard; you are but another in a long line of people who say learn it at the keyboard, without (attempting) understanding or acknowledging the questions being asked: this set of questions was based on three facts given

  1. I can't find any chord progressions that work for me
  2. I play my first chord
  3. Then I search for my second chord within the chords available in my current key

To me, this set of facts and scenario, suggests that the op has decided before playing their second chord that the first chord must be chord I/i.... which we both know is not a given or unassailable truth....

To ignore the facts of the case is negligent and can lead to giving poor, incomplete or incompetent advice. A teacher/mentor/adviser makes sure of what is being asked and then provides an answer in those terms, rather than making a motherhood statement about spending more time at the keyboard so that it becomes second nature....

When you understand the role of teacher/mentor/adviser and student/mentoree/advisee, come back and share your wisdom with those who truly do need it....
 
That's fair enough, and it's good that you've given an in depth answer to these problems.

Music theory and learning/practicing the piano worked for me so that thinking about chords and harmonies became second nature, so after other people learn/practice the same things they might be able to think about music with similar clarity more easily. That's a long term solution that I suggested.

I'll agree that you answered the particular questions asked more accurately, but simply the correct answer isn't the only valuable piece of advice worth sharing. You've given the correct answer, I've given some ideas that work very well for me, and will hopefully work very well for AfroThunder and other musicians who may read this thread.
 
It really depends on the style you're looking to write for.
A lot of Spanish/European music is written in Modes like Mixolydian, Phrygian, etc.
These modes work VERY differently than just Major/Minor.

But if you're writing Pop/Commercial stuff, you want to stick to stuff that's very easy and very common.

Hope this helps!
 
AfroThunder said:
For the minor scales i would use the same formula as major right?
Click to expand...

My waking thoughts this morning were an answer to this question even though I did not know it had been asked:


So for the various minors we have the following ideas:

Natural Minor
ChordGoes to-Examplesin Am-Examplesin Dm-Examplesin Em
iiv,[sup]b[/sup]VI,[sup]b[/sup]VII,[sup]b[/sup]III-AmDm, F, G, C-DmGm, B[sup]b[/sup], C, F-EmAm, C, D, G
ii[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]III,v-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]C, Em-Em[sup]b5[/sup]F, Am-F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]G, Bm
[sup]b[/sup]IIIany chord-CC, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-FF, Gm, Am, B[sup]b[/sup], C, Dm, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-GG, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#mb5
iv[sup]b[/sup]VI,[sup]b[/sup]VII,ii[sup]b5[/sup]-DmF, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-GmB[sup]b[/sup], C, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-AmC, D, F#m[sup]b5[/sup]
viv,[sup]b[/sup]VI,i-EmDm, F, Am-AmGm, B[sup]b[/sup], Dm-BmAm, C, Em
[sup]b[/sup]VI[sup]b[/sup]III,vi,[sup]b[/sup]VII,ii[sup]b5[/sup]-FC, Em, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-B[sup]b[/sup]F, Am, C, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-CG, Bm, D, F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]
[sup]b[/sup]VII[sup]b[/sup]III,i,[sup]b[/sup]VI-GC, Am, F-CF, Dm, B[sup]b[/sup]-DG, Em, C

Harmonic Minor
ChordGoes to-Examplesin Am-Examplesin Dm-Examplesin Em
iV, iv,[sup]b[/sup]VI,vii[sup]b5[/sup],[sup]b[/sup]III-AmE, Dm, F, G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], C-DmA, Gm, B[sup]b[/sup], Cm[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], F-EmB, Am, C, D[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], G
ii[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]III[sup]#5[/sup],V-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]C[sup]#5[/sup], E-Em[sup]b5[/sup]F[sup]#5[/sup], A-F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]G[sup]#5[/sup], B
[sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup]any chord-C[sup](#5)[/sup]C[sup](#5)[/sup], Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-F[sup](#5)[/sup]F[sup](#5)[/sup], Gm, Am, B[sup]b[/sup], C, Dm, Em[sup]b5[/sup]-G[sup](#5)[/sup]G[sup](#5)[/sup], Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]
ivV, [sup]b[/sup]VI,vii[sup]b5[/sup],ii[sup]b5[/sup]-DmF, G[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-GmB[sup]b[/sup], C[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], Em[sup]b5[/sup]-AmC, D[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], F[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]
Viv,[sup]b[/sup]VI,i-EDm, F, Am-AGm, B[sup]b[/sup], Dm-BAm, C, Em
[sup]b[/sup]VI[sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup], vi,vii[sup]b5[/sup],ii[sup]b5[/sup]-FC[sup](#5)[/sup], Em, G[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-B[sup]b[/sup]F[sup](#5)[/sup], Am, C[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], Em[sup]b5[/sup]-CG[sup](#5)[/sup], Bm, D[sup]#5[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], F[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]
vii[sup]b5[/sup][sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup], i,[sup]b[/sup]VI-GC[sup](#5)[/sup], Am, F-CF[sup](#5)[/sup], Dm, B[sup]b[/sup]-DG[sup](#5)[/sup], Em, C

missing in both sets of answers (minor and major) is that each chord can go to itself (think of it more as extending the life of the chord, rather than a progression to another chord) by using inversions.

Some additional ideas come along in terms of substitutes for each chord:

Major-Nat Minor-Harmonic Minor
ChordSubstitutes-ChordSubstitutes-ChordSubstitutes
Ivi, iii, IV, V-i[sup]b[/sup]III, v, [sup]b[/sup]VI, iv-i[sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup], V, [sup]b[/sup]VI, iv
iiIV, vi, vii[sup]b5[/sup], V-ii[sup]b5[/sup]iv, [sup]b[/sup]VI, [sup]b[/sup]VII, v-ii[sup]b5[/sup]iv, [sup]b[/sup]VI, vii[sup]b5[/sup], V
iiiV, vii[sup]b5[/sup], I, vi-[sup]b[/sup]IIIv, [sup]b[/sup]VII, i, [sup]b[/sup]VI-[sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup]V, vii[sup]b5[/sup], i, [sup]b[/sup]VI
IVvi, I, ii, vii[sup]b5[/sup]-iv[sup]b[/sup]VI, i, ii[sup]b5[/sup], [sup]b[/sup]VII-iv[sup]b[/sup]VI, i, ii[sup]b5[/sup], vii[sup]b5[/sup]
Vvii[sup]b5[/sup], ii, iii, I-v[sup]b[/sup]VII, ii[sup]b5[/sup], [sup]b[/sup]III, i-Vvii[sup]b5[/sup], ii[sup]b5[/sup], [sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup], i
viI, iii, IV, ii-[sup]b[/sup]VIi, [sup]b[/sup]III, iv, ii[sup]b5[/sup]-[sup]b[/sup]VIi, [sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup], iv, ii[sup]b5[/sup]
vii[sup]b5[/sup]ii, IV, V, iii-[sup]b[/sup]VIIii[sup]b5[/sup], iv, v, [sup]b[/sup]III-vii[sup]b5[/sup]ii[sup]b5[/sup], iv, V, [sup]b[/sup]III[sup](#5)[/sup]

Examples
Major-Nat Minor-Harmonic Minor
ChordSubstitutes-ChordSubstitutes-ChordSubstitutes
CEm, G, Am, F-AmC, Em, F, Dm-AmC[sup](#5)[/sup], E, F, Dm
DmF, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], G-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]Dm, F, G, Em-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]Dm, F, E, G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], V
EmG, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], C, Am-CEm, G, Am, F-C[sup](#5)[/sup]E, G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], Am, F

F		Am, C, Dm, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-DmF, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], G-DmF, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]
GBm[sup]b5[/sup], Dm, Em, C-EmG, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], C, Am-EG[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup], Bm[sup]b5[/sup], C[sup](#5)[/sup], Am
AmC, Em, F, Dm-FAm, C, Dm, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]-FAm, C[sup](#5)[/sup], Dm, Bm[sup]b5[/sup]
Bm[sup]b5[/sup]Dm, F, G, Em-GBm[sup]b5[/sup], Dm, Em, C-G[sup]#[/sup]m[sup]b5[/sup]Bm[sup]b5[/sup], Dm, E, C[sup](#5)[/sup]

This works because each possible substitute chord shares at least one note with the original chord....


Tonic Major/Tonic Minor
We can also substitute the tonic major for the tonic minor and vice versa, e.g. C -> Cm and Am -> A

Jazz/NeoSoul: Tritone subs
And then we can consider some jazz shit like tritone substitutions

Example
Em-Am-Dm-G-C can become Em-E[sup]b[/sup]-Dm-D[sup]b[/sup]-C or B[sup]b[/sup]-Am-A[sup]b[/sup]-G-C

Play it and hear it for yourself.....

@agbeats: problem with progression formulae is that there is always the exception - how do you accommodate the substitutions I have just written about within such a formula? Not easily, and almost always breaks your formula if you try to incorporate it (too many new loops and feedback circuits)

Taking the extended chord substitution route, we end up with a much richer possibility of chord progression/sequence

ChordGoes to-Examplesin C
Iany chord - i, [sup]b[/sup]V-CC, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm[sup]b5[/sup] - Cm, G[sup]b[/sup]
iiIV, V, vii[sup]b5[/sup] - vi, II, [sup]b[/sup]VI-DmF, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup] - Am, D, A[sup]b[/sup]
iiiii, IV, vi - V, vii[sup]b5[/sup], III, [sup]b[/sup]VII-EmDm, F, Am - G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], E, B[sup]b[/sup]
IVI, iii, V,vii[sup]b5[/sup] - vi, ii, iv, VII-FC, Em, G, Bm[sup]b5[/sup] - Am, Dm, Fm, B
VI, vi, IV - iii, vii[sup]b5[/sup], ii, v, [sup]b[/sup]II-GC, Am, F - Em, Bm[sup]b5[/sup], Dm, Gm, D[sup]b[/sup]
viii, IV, V, I - iii, VI, [sup]b[/sup]III-AmDm, F, G, C - Em, A, E[sup]b[/sup]
vii[sup]b5[/sup]I, iii - ii, IV, V, VII, vii-Bm[sup]b5[/sup]C, Em - Dm, F, G, B, Bm

working the minor scales (natural and harmonic) is left as an exercise for those interested in understanding it further......
 
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bandcoach never fails to fry my brain lmao. Good stuff BC, im gonna have to really really look over all of that.
 
AG Beats said:
bandcoach never fails to fry my brain lmao. Good stuff BC, im gonna have to really really look over all of that.
Click to expand...

the last table has all the info you need (it is a summary with a single set of examples of everything that went before)
 
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