Arrangement & Production Procedure !??!??
- Thread starter Phlexter
- Start date
zionproductions
New member
Not sure if I understand your question...Are you saying you can't come up with different parts beyond the 4bar loop. Or are you asking tips on how to arrange the parts of your 4bar loop to turn it into a song that isn't entirely repetitive?
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elchamo
New member
dis is what i usually do wit loops...
1. intro 0,1,4 or 8 bars (dependin on track/genre)
2. chorus 8bar loop
3. 4-6 4bar loops for the verses
4. outro 4bar loop
after i make these i start arranging the track in w/e order sounds better... BE CREATIVE
intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-outro
intro-choru-verse--chor--.5verse-outro
intro-choru-1barbreak-verse-chorus-verse-chorus
1. intro 0,1,4 or 8 bars (dependin on track/genre)
2. chorus 8bar loop
3. 4-6 4bar loops for the verses
4. outro 4bar loop
after i make these i start arranging the track in w/e order sounds better... BE CREATIVE
intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-outro
intro-choru-verse--chor--.5verse-outro
intro-choru-1barbreak-verse-chorus-verse-chorus
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R
Reliic
Guest
Well I usually do intros with 8 Bars and alot of FXs, Hooks definately 8 Bars and 16 Bar verses with variations every 8 bars and if im making like Pop Beats i like to do like a breakdown in between to show the melodic skills, but there is really not a rule on how to do it, sometimes its good to be different.
There are many different ways that you can arrange a song, and they all depend on the material that is present. This is an area in which I excel, so I will try to simplify it. Though, it is never simple due to the fact that you never come accross the same material to arrange. You must always start a song to get somebody's attention within the first 10-20 seconds. There are a few ways to do this depending on the song. The simplest way is to give a shortened version of the chorus, but with a stightly different vocal. It can be straight off of the chorus, but you want to differentiate it from the actual chorus. The addition of a lead instrument, just singing the first part of the chorus, changing the overall rhythm a bit, etc. This is one of the simplest ways of grabbing the listeners attention if you are dealing with a song that has a great chorus. But, remember that you are only giving a taste of what is to come.
Another way of starting a tune is to have an actual intro that is an excursion from any other part of the song. This is typically a bit trickier as it requires that you set out to build a feeling of anticipation. But, some guidelines to follow to help make it an easier process are as follows: Make it progressive. Make it have a sense of building. Offer a pause or a great turnaround before going into the first verse. This type of song beginning is usually between 4-12 bars. But, if you are going beyong 4 bars for an intro, it best be very intriguing.
Probably the very simplest way to start a tune is to play a 4 bar "quiet" verse. It is what it is. It's an instrumental of the verse with the vocals coming in 4 bars into it.
Now, that takes care of the beginning of a song. Now, we get into the meat of it. First, it helps to have some form of song structure knowledge. Bar-forms are the key here. There are many out there, but typically you will see 32, 12, 16 and 8 bars. Look them up and learn how to distinguish between the different variations. Sometimes it is very simple. You have a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle 8-verse-chorus type arrangement. Other times you will do a variation of the 32-bar form (AABA). And then, you will sometimes break some of the standards. For instance, a popular variation on the 32-bar forrm is to play verse1-verse2-middle 8-verse1 (or turnaround) with verse 2 being a totally different sounding verse than that of verse 1. The only real judge of how to do it is your ear and the ears of the masses. But, always remember that the verse/chorus structure is always in a multiple of 2. 8 bars verse to 4 bars chorus. 8 and 8. 16 and 8, etc. If ever you are in doubt of whether a particular part is too long, then make it shorter. Because, if you are asking yourself if it sounds to long... Then it is. Better to be short and sweet than long and boring/repetiive.
Now, you also asked about production, of which arrangement is a very important facet. But, you must understand that a Producer has to also think about the overall sonic tapestry of a project. The "sound" of it all. When somebody gets hired to produce a project, he typically has already formed his pallet. All he needs to do now is make sure that the band/artist and the engineer are on the same page. Usually a producer has an already finished product that lies within his mind, he just needs to get that to translate into the actual product. There is no way to teach this other than to practice getting the things that you hear in you mind and successfully translate that into the real world. Also, it takes a lot of natural talent in knowing what people want to hear at a particular time in the ever dynamic field of entertainment.
I have produced a fair amount of projects and I prefer it to actually writing the material. But, when it really comes down to it, I would much rather be the engineer. Though, usually when I produce, I already the engineer by default. I feel more comfortable working with a producer and just tweaking and peaking his vision successfully.
Another way of starting a tune is to have an actual intro that is an excursion from any other part of the song. This is typically a bit trickier as it requires that you set out to build a feeling of anticipation. But, some guidelines to follow to help make it an easier process are as follows: Make it progressive. Make it have a sense of building. Offer a pause or a great turnaround before going into the first verse. This type of song beginning is usually between 4-12 bars. But, if you are going beyong 4 bars for an intro, it best be very intriguing.
Probably the very simplest way to start a tune is to play a 4 bar "quiet" verse. It is what it is. It's an instrumental of the verse with the vocals coming in 4 bars into it.
Now, that takes care of the beginning of a song. Now, we get into the meat of it. First, it helps to have some form of song structure knowledge. Bar-forms are the key here. There are many out there, but typically you will see 32, 12, 16 and 8 bars. Look them up and learn how to distinguish between the different variations. Sometimes it is very simple. You have a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle 8-verse-chorus type arrangement. Other times you will do a variation of the 32-bar form (AABA). And then, you will sometimes break some of the standards. For instance, a popular variation on the 32-bar forrm is to play verse1-verse2-middle 8-verse1 (or turnaround) with verse 2 being a totally different sounding verse than that of verse 1. The only real judge of how to do it is your ear and the ears of the masses. But, always remember that the verse/chorus structure is always in a multiple of 2. 8 bars verse to 4 bars chorus. 8 and 8. 16 and 8, etc. If ever you are in doubt of whether a particular part is too long, then make it shorter. Because, if you are asking yourself if it sounds to long... Then it is. Better to be short and sweet than long and boring/repetiive.
Now, you also asked about production, of which arrangement is a very important facet. But, you must understand that a Producer has to also think about the overall sonic tapestry of a project. The "sound" of it all. When somebody gets hired to produce a project, he typically has already formed his pallet. All he needs to do now is make sure that the band/artist and the engineer are on the same page. Usually a producer has an already finished product that lies within his mind, he just needs to get that to translate into the actual product. There is no way to teach this other than to practice getting the things that you hear in you mind and successfully translate that into the real world. Also, it takes a lot of natural talent in knowing what people want to hear at a particular time in the ever dynamic field of entertainment.
I have produced a fair amount of projects and I prefer it to actually writing the material. But, when it really comes down to it, I would much rather be the engineer. Though, usually when I produce, I already the engineer by default. I feel more comfortable working with a producer and just tweaking and peaking his vision successfully.
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D
Delphine
Guest
Take a track that you know has a good arrangement and cut it up into 8 bar segments. Load these into your sequencer and use them as an 'arrangement' template. Ie: they aren't there to copy, they are there to give you a direction on which to take your own track.
A few times using this and studying other arrangments and you will be flying. Just take a bit of time to understand it and it will show.
A few times using this and studying other arrangments and you will be flying. Just take a bit of time to understand it and it will show.
I took another read of your original post. I don't think that this is really an arrangement or production issue. I think that it is a songwriting issue. To be a great songwriter is quite a task. Just because you play an instrument or have great knowledge of music does not guarantee that you will be a great (and, successful) songwriter.
Do you have any formal music training? Are you somewhat versed in basic theory? Do you have good technique on your primary instrument? If not, then you will have a bit of trouble forming a cohesive song that will grasp people's attention. Not to say that you MUST have these qualities. But, 99 times out of 100, unless you are a perfect natural talent, you will have to work at it.
My basic technique is to play what I hear in my head. If I hear a melody, I will start out with that. If I hear a bassline, I start with that. Lately, it has been drumbeats that have been getting the creative fire stoked. No matter what, you must be able to hear it to make it. Sure, it may change a bit from what was in your mind, but at loeast you took a methodical approach. Also, sometimes you can just be screwing around with no method to speak of and it just all flows. Either way, it is usually the ability to translate what is in your head to an instrument, or the ability to go with the groove.
Stop thinking so much. Don;t set out to make the best thing since sliced bread. Just go with the flow and play what comes to you. Don't be afraid to try anything and do not try to conform to a standard. Because, if you do this, you will put far too much pressure on yourself to reach a set expectation that you haven't even begun to work on yet. Just let it flow and go. It may not sound great at first and will often sound like crap. But, that is the experience of making music. You will write more crap than gold. But, it is that crap that ultimately created that gold. IOW, practice and form a sense of experience.
Do you have any formal music training? Are you somewhat versed in basic theory? Do you have good technique on your primary instrument? If not, then you will have a bit of trouble forming a cohesive song that will grasp people's attention. Not to say that you MUST have these qualities. But, 99 times out of 100, unless you are a perfect natural talent, you will have to work at it.
My basic technique is to play what I hear in my head. If I hear a melody, I will start out with that. If I hear a bassline, I start with that. Lately, it has been drumbeats that have been getting the creative fire stoked. No matter what, you must be able to hear it to make it. Sure, it may change a bit from what was in your mind, but at loeast you took a methodical approach. Also, sometimes you can just be screwing around with no method to speak of and it just all flows. Either way, it is usually the ability to translate what is in your head to an instrument, or the ability to go with the groove.
Stop thinking so much. Don;t set out to make the best thing since sliced bread. Just go with the flow and play what comes to you. Don't be afraid to try anything and do not try to conform to a standard. Because, if you do this, you will put far too much pressure on yourself to reach a set expectation that you haven't even begun to work on yet. Just let it flow and go. It may not sound great at first and will often sound like crap. But, that is the experience of making music. You will write more crap than gold. But, it is that crap that ultimately created that gold. IOW, practice and form a sense of experience.
Phlexter said:
okay first off,, this is what I do.....
i understand where your coming from lol, i always start off my songs with a 4 bar loop.. You should think is the 4 bar loop more of a verse or a chorus,,..
if it sounds full enough to be a chorus, than make it the chorus by doubling it,, than for the verses cut down on a few instruments and make it 16 bars(this is all preference tho)
if it seems like a verse, than make it the verse
now that you got your basic structure,, work on the track by playing it over and over and over lol, adding little touches maybe smoother transitions,, drum breaks..whatever feels right to you,,
make it as if your audience has ADD lol, keep em interested throughout the whole song
same problem
had the same problem a year ago
sometimes the computer/mouse restricts your flow groove
i was boxed in a 2-4 bar loop
I WASNT USING THE COMPUTER AS AN INSTRUMENT
you ever see timbo amd ryan leslie on you tube
THERE DANCING AROUND AND FEELING IT
dont think about the perfect preset/sound/layer
damn use a audio drumloop with your kicks and snares in your sequencer and start feeling it
layout and loop 32+ bars and getup and start feeling it
get on your keys and start laying your instruments/samples one at a time
ONE of the first mistakes of frustrated beatmakers is that there kick/snares/ hats sound like ****t. every professional track soloed w/ 1 instrument by themselves sounds bland
its the layer after layer after of each sound/instrument w their cool effect that creates the total package
this is what you do
cut a 2 bar loop of your song you love in 1 track . slice each kick/snare/hats in another track right below and start trying to get the exact timing of that 2 bar loop of your fav song, quantize off(your drum programming should get better) then slowly mute the oringinal 2 bar wav loop
oops forgot- getting the bpm/tempo of your sampled loop from your song is important...you want the same groove
layout 32+ bars
add different hats/bass/ snare rolls/ reverse snares/synths... w/ your keyboard controller
use it as a instrument
had the same problem a year ago
sometimes the computer/mouse restricts your flow groove
i was boxed in a 2-4 bar loop
I WASNT USING THE COMPUTER AS AN INSTRUMENT
you ever see timbo amd ryan leslie on you tube
THERE DANCING AROUND AND FEELING IT
dont think about the perfect preset/sound/layer
damn use a audio drumloop with your kicks and snares in your sequencer and start feeling it
layout and loop 32+ bars and getup and start feeling it
get on your keys and start laying your instruments/samples one at a time
ONE of the first mistakes of frustrated beatmakers is that there kick/snares/ hats sound like ****t. every professional track soloed w/ 1 instrument by themselves sounds bland
its the layer after layer after of each sound/instrument w their cool effect that creates the total package
this is what you do
cut a 2 bar loop of your song you love in 1 track . slice each kick/snare/hats in another track right below and start trying to get the exact timing of that 2 bar loop of your fav song, quantize off(your drum programming should get better) then slowly mute the oringinal 2 bar wav loop
oops forgot- getting the bpm/tempo of your sampled loop from your song is important...you want the same groove
layout 32+ bars
add different hats/bass/ snare rolls/ reverse snares/synths... w/ your keyboard controller
use it as a instrument
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