i get how the different parts of an adsr-envelope works for amplitude perfectly, but how should i think of the adsr-elements when in terms of a adrs-envelope for a filter? could some1 lay it down for me in terms of attack decay sustain and release and how these parameters effects the filter
adsr for filter
- Thread starter fn86
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Guenon
New member
You can think of the adsr envelope as one general model of controlling a certain parameter inside a given device (software "device" or a hardware one), during a given timeframe. Most often, the parameter you control with it is indeed the amplitude of a signal.
However, the same model can be used for controlling anything else which logically accepts this kind of control data in the setup you're using. An adsr envelope can, for example, control the value of the filter cutoff frequency. Usually, a slow attack can make a sound brighter over time (gradually rises the cutoff frequency), after the initial triggering of a note. Consequently, in many filters you can specify the percentage of the adsr effecting the initial cutoff setting, and if you specify a negative percent value, the assigned envelope will lower the cutoff frequency the further the attack rises, making the sound duller during the attack phase. And so on.
However, the same model can be used for controlling anything else which logically accepts this kind of control data in the setup you're using. An adsr envelope can, for example, control the value of the filter cutoff frequency. Usually, a slow attack can make a sound brighter over time (gradually rises the cutoff frequency), after the initial triggering of a note. Consequently, in many filters you can specify the percentage of the adsr effecting the initial cutoff setting, and if you specify a negative percent value, the assigned envelope will lower the cutoff frequency the further the attack rises, making the sound duller during the attack phase. And so on.
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THM
New member
Damn' it's so simple but it's hard to explain... Let's take an exemple:
filter cutoff knob level = 2
filter envelope amount = 5
filter env. A = 1 sec.
filter env. D = 1.5 sec
filter env. S = 3
filter env. R = 2 sec
T = amount of time
L = total filter cutoff level
s=start
e=end
=> before pressing key:
no sound (obviously !!)
=> when pressing key:
T0 = 0 (starting point)
L0 = 2 (cutoff knob level)
* Attack (cutoff frequency rises) :
T1 = amount of Filter Attack = 1 second
L1s = 2 (start level - i.e. cutoff frequency knob level)
L1e = 7 = 2 (start level) + 5 (filter envelope amount)
* Decay (cutoff goes down again) :
T2 = amount of Filter Decay = 1.5 seconds
L2s = 7 = 2 (start level) + 5 (filter envelope amount)
L2e = 5 = 2 (start level) + 3 (sustain level)
* Sustain (cutoff frequency sustains) :
T3 = (untill key is released)
L3 = 5 = 2 (start level) + 3 (sustain level)
=> when releasing key:
* Release (cutoff goes down to starting level) :
T4 = amount of Filter Release = 2 seconds
L4s = 5 = 2 (start level) + 3 (sustain level)
L4e = 2 (start level)
I *hope* this is clear now.
filter cutoff knob level = 2
filter envelope amount = 5
filter env. A = 1 sec.
filter env. D = 1.5 sec
filter env. S = 3
filter env. R = 2 sec
T = amount of time
L = total filter cutoff level
s=start
e=end
=> before pressing key:
no sound (obviously !!)
=> when pressing key:
T0 = 0 (starting point)
L0 = 2 (cutoff knob level)
* Attack (cutoff frequency rises) :
T1 = amount of Filter Attack = 1 second
L1s = 2 (start level - i.e. cutoff frequency knob level)
L1e = 7 = 2 (start level) + 5 (filter envelope amount)
* Decay (cutoff goes down again) :
T2 = amount of Filter Decay = 1.5 seconds
L2s = 7 = 2 (start level) + 5 (filter envelope amount)
L2e = 5 = 2 (start level) + 3 (sustain level)
* Sustain (cutoff frequency sustains) :
T3 = (untill key is released)
L3 = 5 = 2 (start level) + 3 (sustain level)
=> when releasing key:
* Release (cutoff goes down to starting level) :
T4 = amount of Filter Release = 2 seconds
L4s = 5 = 2 (start level) + 3 (sustain level)
L4e = 2 (start level)
I *hope* this is clear now.
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wow man, you really took time trying to break that down for me, i really really apreciate that 
sadly i didnt get any more wiser from that, its not your way of explaining its just my brain not to be able to understand or something
could you try to break in down in a simpler way with just 1 example or something? i have been playing with my minimonsta and its adsr filter envelope for several days now so you could say that i kinda understand in some kind of way
sadly i didnt get any more wiser from that, its not your way of explaining its just my brain not to be able to understand or somethingcould you try to break in down in a simpler way with just 1 example or something?
i have been playing with my minimonsta and its adsr filter envelope for several days now so you could say that i kinda understand in some kind of way What THM wrote makes sense, just read it carefully. Not just saying it because I'm more familiar with things, because I got nothing out of it from just looking at it until I took it step by step.
Attack, how long it takes for filter to kick in. Decay, how long it takes for filter to go back down. Sustain, how long filter will hold before going back down (decay), release, amount filter value will decrease after decay.
What THM wrote is a good written representation of the progression a sound goes through under a filter envelope.
Attack, how long it takes for filter to kick in. Decay, how long it takes for filter to go back down. Sustain, how long filter will hold before going back down (decay), release, amount filter value will decrease after decay.
What THM wrote is a good written representation of the progression a sound goes through under a filter envelope.
i agree THM did write an excellent explanation, just my brain who doesnt compute sorry for that
i got your explanation perfectly sleepy, except this:
"Sustain, how long filter will hold before going back down (decay)"
dont you mean before going back down to release?
and where does it remain hold at under the sustain part? the cutoff frequency?
sorry for thati got your explanation perfectly sleepy, except this:
"Sustain, how long filter will hold before going back down (decay)"
dont you mean before going back down to release?
and where does it remain hold at under the sustain part? the cutoff frequency?
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THM
New member
I guess so. The Filter Decay lets the filter cutoff start with the level of the frequency knob plus the level of the Filter Env Amount (the Filter Envelope Amount defines how much filter cutoff frequency there will be added to the frequency knob's level), going down, to end with the level of the frequency knob plus the level of Filter Sustain.
The time between starting and end of this section is the Filter Decay (decay handles a period of time).
After that the Filter Sustain stays on untill you release the key.
Then the Filter Release starts (handles another period of time).
So the filter envelope's Attack, Decay, and Release values are actually seen as time units, while the Sustain value is an extra cutoff frequency level.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry typing error !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I apologize - Fn86 - my bad but for the filter cutoff knob level I wrote "4" and it should be "2". It's adjusted now in the exemple above, and now everything should be correct.
Sorry again.
The time between starting and end of this section is the Filter Decay (decay handles a period of time).
After that the Filter Sustain stays on untill you release the key.
Then the Filter Release starts (handles another period of time).
So the filter envelope's Attack, Decay, and Release values are actually seen as time units, while the Sustain value is an extra cutoff frequency level.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry typing error !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I apologize - Fn86 - my bad but for the filter cutoff knob level I wrote "4" and it should be "2". It's adjusted now in the exemple above, and now everything should be correct.
Sorry again.
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i took time to read and understand your first explanation, and i got it! =)
i just wanna thank you for putting that much effort into explaining, really great of you =)
so basicly, if comparing the filter-adsr to an waveform, the frequency cutoff level is equal to the zero-crossing section of an waveform? in other words, this is the level the filter always returns to
i just wanna thank you for putting that much effort into explaining, really great of you =)
so basicly, if comparing the filter-adsr to an waveform, the frequency cutoff level is equal to the zero-crossing section of an waveform? in other words, this is the level the filter always returns to
THM
New member
It starts with the filter cutoff frequency at the frequency of the filter cutoff knob, it does the envelope (*), and it ends at the same level where it started (**).
(*) unless the envelope amount knob is disabled or at 0
(**) unless you tweaked the filter cutoff knob during the session of course
Another (logical) tip: when the Attack is 0 (or very slight) you'll hear immediately those highest frequency - 'cause the Decay starts immediately when pressing a key (=> no attack time). Simply logics, got it !?
(*) unless the envelope amount knob is disabled or at 0
(**) unless you tweaked the filter cutoff knob during the session of course
Another (logical) tip: when the Attack is 0 (or very slight) you'll hear immediately those highest frequency - 'cause the Decay starts immediately when pressing a key (=> no attack time). Simply logics, got it !?
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THM
New member
I'd say - logically - you'll only hear the filter cutoff knob level, unless the filter cutoff knob is set at zero too (then you'll hear nothing 'cause the filter is completely at it lowest point).
let's take an exemple again:
filter cutoff knob = 2
Filter Envelope amount = 0
Amplifier Attack = 0
Amplifier Decay = 10 (full level)
Amplifier Sustain = 10
Amplifier Release = 0
=> you'll hear the cutoff frequency at level 2 from the moment you press a key untill you release the key (if the Amplifier Release has a higher level than zero you'll hear the sound fading out as long as the release time when you release the key)
let's take an exemple again:
filter cutoff knob = 2
Filter Envelope amount = 0
Amplifier Attack = 0
Amplifier Decay = 10 (full level)
Amplifier Sustain = 10
Amplifier Release = 0
=> you'll hear the cutoff frequency at level 2 from the moment you press a key untill you release the key (if the Amplifier Release has a higher level than zero you'll hear the sound fading out as long as the release time when you release the key)
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