Studio

[wlouch]

Hey all,

exciting times for me, i am making a studio from a garage. unlike most garages, i have free reign on what i can do within a budget. I have a decent grasp of acoustics. Also, it is a decent sized separate garage, and will be acoustically treated through GIK acoustics, not that they know that yet.

This is a quick probably stupid question, but i have some flooring tiles left over from the house, would this be too much to floor the live room with reflection wise, i am looking for a hard wood finish on the walls, or at least a couple, as i dont want it totally dead, i want the room to have some characteristics, preferably pleasantly appealing.

So my question is, what materials should i be looking in to for a live room? I would like to have a nice live sounding room, with versatility so i can cover the floor for more deadended recordings when needed.

Thanks all.


Will

[tatsama]

it depends on your budget really.. wide price range when it comes to sound proofing material.. i personally have stuck , egg cartons , thermocol , old blankets , pieces of cradboard , etc etc .. money is tight.. but it works well for what it is.

[wlouch]

I dont want to sound ungrateful, but that isnt related to what I asked. Egg cartons do nothing terms of sound isolation by the way, i think it just reduces 800hz, and that is it. It is a myth man.

[tatsama]

one manages with what one has.. good luck with ur studio setup.. sorry i could'nt be of better help.

[dvyce]

This is a quick probably stupid question, but i have some flooring tiles left over from the house, would this be too much to floor the live room with reflection wise, i am looking for a hard wood finish on the walls, or at least a couple, as i dont want it totally dead, i want the room to have some characteristics, preferably pleasantly appealing.

So my question is, what materials should i be looking in to for a live room? I would like to have a nice live sounding room, with versatility so i can cover the floor for more deadended recordings when needed.

it is not unusual to have hardwood floors in a live room...

I don't know if I would put hardwood on the walls, though... at least not in a typical "hard wood floor" sort of manner.

You typically want to avoid flat reflective parallel surfaces on your studio/live room walls... you don't want to have any slap back or fluttering issues... you don't want the sound bouncing directly back at you or from wall to wall...

If you clap your hands loudly in a room with flat parallel walls you will hear the distinctive "boing" of the sound reflecting back and forth between the walls-- and that is not a sound you want in a studio/live room.

Your room will not be "dead" unless you make it dead.

I would suggest a more irregular pattern on the walls... and if you can make the walls so they are not parallel, then that is even better.

You don't want to hear the sound echoing.

You want a natural "liveness" to the room... you want the sound to be "diffused" (hence the term "diffuser" that you may have heard)...

A "diffuser" helps the sound to reflect in a random pattern rather than bouncing right back at you.

There are several things you can do to your walls to diffuse the sound.

You can get store bought panels. These can be expensive and some are better than others.

If you have brick or stone walls exposed in the room, it could be helpful to you.

Some people like to put bookshelves on the walls (with books on them) to make the sound reflect at uneven intervals...

...anything to avoid a flat surface, basically.

...Some people will tell you that you need a specific type of mathematically developed diffuser to record properly.

...some people will tell you to put anything on your wall to make it uneven.

I personally am one of those professionals who is not so "prissy" about my recording environments. I have rooms with very expensive treatment on the walls but I still sometimes prefer to record in other random "non recording" rooms around the studio with no "real" treatment whatsoever, just because I like the sound.

[wlouch]

Thats for that DVYCE.

In the design so far, I have created the traditional 10 sided control booth shape, this would cause the live room to have a couple of unparallel sides. The issue would be lengthways, these surfaces are parallel. I have already looked in to GIK acoustics, and purchasing a few diffusers and traps for the live room, to even out the acoustics.

I would like to have the live room be fairly reflective, but in a non echoey fashion. So this of course would require nice hard surfaces on a couple of surfaces, with acoustic treatment in reflective problem areas to help tame it becoming echoey or boomy.

The control booth, will be acoustically treated to creative a sweet spot as much panelling as I can afford. Priority would be to have at least a panel in each corner, and one at each primary and secondary reflection point. The walls in the control room, being a less reflective surface, such as painted wall, as opposed to specific hardwood or harder surface.

Back to the live room, I ideally want to be able to deaden the sound if i need to, but be able to have the option of keeping it more live if i require. I guess this is where rugs, carpet and drapes come in, but that isn't a problem.

I may not use tiling for a live room, a nice hardwood would be more appropriate for longevity, and acoustically.

[dvyce]

Thats for that DVYCE.

In the design so far, I have created the traditional 10 sided control booth shape, this would cause the live room to have a couple of unparallel sides. The issue would be lengthways, these surfaces are parallel. I have already looked in to GIK acoustics, and purchasing a few diffusers and traps for the live room, to even out the acoustics.

When you say "10 sided control booth shape" are you talking 8 walls + floor + ceiling = 10 sides?

I am not sure I understand how your room exactly will be shaped... There really is no standard "traditional" design (just do a google search for "recording studio floor plan" and you will see that there is a lot of variation in studio design)... but when I think "traditional" room, there would likely not be any parallel walls, either lengthwise or otherwise.... and the room would be symmetrical... angles where walls meet are obtuse...

For example, my 2 main rooms have 8 walls (sort of like a "stop sign" shape if you pinched it at the top and stretched it a bit)... and the ceiling is angled so the floor and ceiling are not parallel to eachother.

Similar to the control room in this picture (this is not my floor plan, but the room shape is similar):



The front of the room is the smaller pinched area and it fans out to the larger side as the back of the room.

II would like to have the live room be fairly reflective, but in a non echoey fashion. So this of course would require nice hard surfaces on a couple of surfaces, with acoustic treatment in reflective problem areas to help tame it becoming echoey or boomy.

The control booth, will be acoustically treated to creative a sweet spot as much panelling as I can afford. Priority would be to have at least a panel in each corner, and one at each primary and secondary reflection point. The walls in the control room, being a less reflective surface, such as painted wall, as opposed to specific hardwood or harder surface.

Your room will most likely be reflective and "live" sounding regardless of whether you simply have sheetrock walls or wood paneling... you will probably not notice much is any difference either way. The key is to treat your surfaces so they reflect in the way you want them to.

It is like any room with no furniture... it is very echoey until you fill it up with couches, tables, cabinets, wall hangings, tv, stereo, rug, plants, etc, etc... these things all absorb and diffuse the sound so you don't sound like you are in a cave or a tin can or a garage.

I would say your main problem areas will be the corners where the bass will accumulate and the parallel walls where you want to avoid the flutter echos...

and don't forget about reflections from the ceiling back at you.

...If you have the design like I described, you largely avoid those reflection points... have you heard of the "mirror test"? you sit in your engineering position and have someone hold a mirror and move it along the wall from the fromt of the room walking toward the back. Anyplace where you can see the monitors in the mirror is a place you will need to treat your walls for sound reflecting off of them in unwanted ways.

Back to the live room, I ideally want to be able to deaden the sound if i need to, but be able to have the option of keeping it more live if i require. I guess this is where rugs, carpet and drapes come in, but that isn't a problem.

I may not use tiling for a live room, a nice hardwood would be more appropriate for longevity, and acoustically.

keep extra standalone panels that you can arrange around the room to deaden it when desired.



...send an email to GIK and tell them what you are trying to accomplish and, if possible, send them a drawing of the layout of your room. They will be able to help you determine what sort of treatment you would need.

[wlouch]

Ah, i assumed 10sides was the traditional shape, any control room i have been in has been that shape, just of various sizes. No parallel surfaces.

I have been looking in to celing clouds as well as bass traps. Yeah, the mirror trick is within my repritoire, its a goodun.

Subwoofer placement? I realise most information below 250hz is omnidirectional, but placing a subwoofer under a desk, would this just resonate unevenly? Should I look at placing it in a more open space?

Also, do GIK send over professionals to help with the placement and hanging of the panels?

Oh and in addition, my live room ceiling at this stage is ^ that sort of shape with a flatter section in he middle. Should I avoid this? MY control room will have non parallel ceiling and floor. Should the ceiling be higher where my monitors are going to be placed or at the back of me?

Cheers for your advice. Very jealous of your studio layout.

[dvyce]

Ah, i assumed 10sides was the traditional shape, any control room i have been in has been that shape, just of various sizes. No parallel surfaces.

I have been looking in to celing clouds as well as bass traps. Yeah, the mirror trick is within my repritoire, its a goodun.

Subwoofer placement? I realise most information below 250hz is omnidirectional, but placing a subwoofer under a desk, would this just resonate unevenly? Should I look at placing it in a more open space?

I do not know the answer to your subwoofer question.

Also, do GIK send over professionals to help with the placement and hanging of the panels?

I don't believe so...

They are a small operation... I don't think they have the resources nor infrastructure nor size to be doing that.

...but because they are a small operation, they seem to be reachable with questions like this, and from what I have seen, are more than willing to help you figure out what you need.

It should not be too tough for them to help you with figuring it out if you send them a drawing with the room dimensions.

Oh and in addition, my live room ceiling at this stage is ^ that sort of shape with a flatter section in he middle. Should I avoid this? MY control room will have non parallel ceiling and floor. Should the ceiling be higher where my monitors are going to be placed or at the back of me?

Cheers for your advice. Very jealous of your studio layout.

In a standard (non cathedral/church type scenario) height room, a pointy ceiling like that will probably give you problems... if the ceiling is already like that, you will probably need to put a cloud in that center pointy area... (of course, I am saying this without having seen or heard the room)


Ceiling should be higher at the back of the room... Think of how the sound waves emanate from the speakers and spread as the travel... the room is like that... smaller in the front and getting larger toward the back (if you decide to go with that type of design)...


I would finish building your room and listen to how it sounds before you start buying treatment... although, as they say, you can never have too much bass trapping.

[wlouch]

Thanks DVYCE, much appreciated. I assumed it would be needing to be raised at the back, made sense, but i wanted confirmation.

The live room ceiling is more like this /-\ but with a flush top half, apologies for the first diagram and explanation, it wasn't quite accurate.

In addition, in regards to the control room, is it best to avoid a window on one side of the control room if i can help it? As it stands I will need to have a window somewhere, and due to the space and extension, the best way for me to use all of the space most efficiently, I will need to have the control room to the side not facing the live room/s. Again, I assume avoiding this would make sense acoustically, but can it be worked around without too much of an issue, or will it lead to resulting in an uneven sounding room?