A lot of questions about studio monitors...

Unknown_Artist

New member
Huge wall of text incoming, TL;DR version on the bottom :)

I had some questions regarding reference monitors. I am looking at getting a pair, but I live in Alaska and I have found exactly 0 pairs for sale here, new or used. It appears I will have to order some online, and the shipping will cost me damn near as much as the monitors will, depending on which pair I get. I'm going to have to make sure I get a pair that i'll be happy with, because that's a huge investment, and it will be too late to change my mind once I pull the trigger on a pair. I have been producing on headphones for a long time, and with the free time i've had as of late, i've finally got an album close to finished that I am happy with for once. I have had just about every popular pair of headphone under 500 bucks but the ones i'm using currently, and that have the flattest response i've found, are the AKG q701s. As much as I love the q7s, I don't think I'm doing myself any favors going through the whole process with headphones like I always do. I just moved into a new house, and now that my noise output isn't as much of an issue, I think that I really need to mix down the whole album on a real pair of monitors. Before I even consider a pair I have a few things I need to sort out.

-Do I need a sub? I have noticed that many people selling monitors attempt to pair them with a sub. Rokits, Yamahas, etc have their own model sub that go with the monitors. I wanted to get a pair of 8" monitors because I thought I wouldn't need a sub if I did, but I see that the sub is often sold together even with the 8 inch. If that's the case, why do people buy the 8 inch at all? from what I understand, the bass is deeper, and clearer with the 8 inch versus the 5 inch cones, but why bother with that if you are going to get a sub anyway? Something I have read, is that a sub needs to be calibrated in order to get proper functionality in line with your monitors. That could be a whole can of worms in itself... I know that some people don't use a sub, so I'm not even sure if I need one.

-Do I need an audio interface for monitors? from what I have read, everyone seems to be plugging their stuff into an interface. I might need to get one anyway, in order to record electric guitar, and make it easier to have my devices connected in one place, but the microphone I use is USB. From what I understand, it also helps lighten the load on the sound card? *shrug*.. Monitors I was looking at had a 1/4 inch jack, so if I was going to use them without an interface, I guess I would need to put a 1/8 converter on them, which might be a problem also.

-I'm concerned about acoustic treatment of my room. The room i'm going to be occupying for my audio equipment is a pretty huge room, something like a U shape and a total of about 450 square feet maybe. It's like 25 feet wide, with an A frame ceiling (It's the loft room). The only position available to me to put my desk and monitors is going to be in one of the corners. I assume that bass traps, foam, all that kind of stuff, if needed, would be totally wasted on a space like that. Does anyone have any experience mixing in a huge room with slanted ceilings?

-I'm not sure which monitors to get. After reading tons of forum threads, articles, and reddit posts, over several months time, I still don't have any clue which ones would suit me best. I think that any pair I get will be something my ears will get used to, and I'll eventually be able to mix properly on them once I have experience with them. Based on some things i've heard, and my price range, some that have looked like possibilities to me were the Yamaha HS8s, the KRK RP8G3-NA Rokit 8 Generation 3s, and the JBL LSR308s. My price range is pretty flexible, as I have some money set aside for this, but I was hoping to spend under 1,000 or so for my first pair, especially factoring in that shipping will be so much, although I wasn't sure if I was going to be getting a sub or not.

Very sorry for the huge wall of text... TL;DR..


-Do I need a sub even if i get 8s? If it is recommended to use a sub, why get 8s at all if it's only for bass definition? Is there any other benefit to having bigger cones?

-Do I need an audio interface? Is it recommended to use one even if I'm just using monitors for now?

-Do I have to worry about treating my huge room? If so, how could I even go about it, being a weird shape, and being stuck in the corner?

-Which monitors do you guys recommend? What do you think of the ones I listed?

Thanks so much for any input, sorry for the massive read, and sorry if some of my questions were stupid / uninformed. Theres so much to know about all of this, and I know so little, despite having been a bedroom producer for the last 15 years. I guess I just have a weird way of doing things, and I was in a pretty tight spot for a long time as far as noise level / income. I hope that I can learn something, and maybe someone can help steer me in the right direction. Thanks for reading!
 
You have A LOT of questions! Good ones; that's ok.
But it would take twice to three times as much typing to answer each relatively thoroughly, and the real answer, as always, is-- "It depends." It depends, it depends, it depends...

It's late, I've got to hit the rack-- let's see what others offer or if BC decides to tackle any of this in-depth. My off-the-cuff, quick-shot responses? You are making a good decision to get off of headphones as a primary mix monitor. Yes, you will definitely need room treatment, especially in the room you're describing. I personally would stay away from Rokits, and no, you don't "need" a sub (other opinions will vary, and this is somewhat genre-dependent). If you buy from a reputable dealer with a good return policy, it shouldn't matter if you're in Alaska.

If you want to try and tackle one in-depth question at a time (!), PM me and I'll be glad to help where I can or point you in the right direction if possible. You really should hear these speaker choices, with music you're familiar with, live before making a decision. There must be somewhere near you that you can go to hear some audio gear (??)...

GJ
 
Thanks for the respose. I mostly do dubstep, and drum n bass, so I think I might need to end up getting a sub. I have done much research, and as i'm going for something with the flattest response I can get, I'm leaning towards the Yamaha HS8s with an HS8S sub. It appears I will need another audio interface. My main concern now is how to treat such a huge room, that i'll be sharing with my wife when she is home. She won't appreciate the decor if I hang a bunch of acoustic treatments, so it's something I might have to do without, unless it's Really really important. Keep in mind the room is pretty huge. I was told I may not need as much treatment in a big room. Here's a pic of the room if anyone has any input. It's about 30 feet wide, with an A frame ceiling that is lower on the sides and higher in the middle. It's like a "U" shape.setupp.jpg
 
1+3_I have the HS8 and i am satisfied. I make progressive techno/house so i need a fair amount of bass. With any 8'' you will definitely need sound treatment to your room, so imagine if you get a sub. Consider the cost of the treatment as well. Make sure you purchase not only absorbers but diffusers as well, and make a research about correct placement of them. About the aesthetics, it doesn't have to be all black colored, and also you shouldn't fill the entire room with them since your room will sound unnatural. Also, you definitely need to move away from the corners of your room, especially if you do your own mixes of your tracks.
2_You definitely need an audio interface. Make sure you use balanced cables.
4_I agree with rhythmgj about the Rokits, just stay away from them (i sense a lot people want to shoot me already!). I believe the best monitors of that price range would be the HS and the JBL LSR. But hey, i don't have a phd of studio monitors knowledge..

Keep in mind that all depends on how serious you want to take your passion. The more important it is for you, the bigger your budget will have to be and also the more the compromises your wife will have to take. :p
 
Room treatment _is_ "very, very important" (if you want to make something close to professional product). Add in an A-frame type ceiling, and sticking your monitors in a corner, and you'd better have treatment!

I would suggest some type of hanging cloud over your mix position, plus bass traps, diffusers, and foam for high end/flutter echo. But that's just off the top of my head...

GJ
 
Awesome. Great feedback guys, some stuff to think about for sure. I've thought about picking up a subpac2 instead of a hs8s sub, that way room treatment wouldn't matter as far as the sub is concerned. I have pretty good headphones, so theres always that, too. The hanging cloud thing I have heard before, might need to think about that. I'm not sure if she will let me set up anywhere other than one of the corners, she's pretty bossy about her space / aesthetics. I only have free reign while she's gone.. Maybe I should try to set up in a smaller room in the lower part of the house.. that would require moving a lot of stuff though, and I heard mixing in a big room can be beneficial.. On top of all that, it's the farthest away from other people who would be bothered by the noise.
 
more dimensions are needed to offer some insight into your room profile

minimum height and maximum height are need as is length and width - a sketch showing profile and floor plan would be helpful too

setting your mix position in a corner will be a poor choice to make - most acousticians recommend that you are 1/3 into the length of the room and just off center of the width of the room. these two positions take you out of the nodal resonance positions (effectively the zero crossing for the modes of resonance in each dimension) for the fundamental modes of resonance.

In the corner you can expect bass loading of almost +18dBSPL for the speaker that is in the corner, as well as being at the anti-node (maximum pressure) for all modes of resonance.

Regardless of what you do you will need bass trapping and some broadband diffusers/absorbers on the walls and even flying them as a cloud above

In terms of the speakers both the HS8's and the JBL's look good to me as do the Tannoy Reveal 802. If you were willing to spend much more (triple) then the genelec series would be good
 
The sides of the ceiling are about 4' in height at the very edge, the middle of the room is about 15' high. It's about 20x30 feet on the ground. It's a big room, and i've made an updated picture about where my setup will be. The yellow square is my sitting position, the green squares are the monitors. the grey square is my sub, if I end up getting one (not sure if I will get a sub to accompany the hs8s yet or not, my music is bass heavy so i'm considering it). The red lines are where I could hang some sort of fabric or carpet to deaden the mids and highs. I can hang a cloud above my position also. I might be able to put up some kind of temporary movable treatment solution behind my chair also, if needed.The only thing i'm not sure about is where to put any bass traps! Some people have said that a big room with a high ceiling that isn't a square will need less treatment, and to be honest it would be an interesting task to try and treat the whole thing, so my idea is to just hang some stuff in my little production area. The wife should be ok with that, as it isn't too invasive. Is that a dumb idea? Should I treat the whole thing, or not even bother? and where would I put my bass traps? Here's what it should look like...setupp.jpg
 
Bass traps go in corners, generally (but you can also hang the rockwool as suggested as bass/general absorbers throughout). You are looking for thickness, so the light foam or carpet/material isn't going to do much other than for highs/reflections. You can also use furniture (thick leather couch and chairs, bookcases filled) as absorbers and diffusors; these will help, but not take the place of properly-placed, purpose-built treatment.

All of this depends on how serious you are about what you're doing (no slight here; it's just reality that you have to weigh benefits in hard costs, and emotional currency with your spouse, vs. perceived production benefits), but doing it half-baked will probably lead to a less than pleasant result. There are "movable" sound treatments (various large 3D foam shapes on stands) that you can buy to surround your mix position... I've seen them but I don't know how effective they would be nor where to find them or how much they cost. Your best bet is to treat the room for real, if you are looking to produce beyond the hobby level. Otherwise, you will always be fighting the effects of your environment in your mix.

GJ
 
Yeah, makes sense! I was thinking of getting some movable treatment options, that's probably the best idea. The sides / overheard should be fine, it's behind me i'm worried about. Thanks for the input! Will look into that..
 
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