Hip Hop - have a strong vocabulary need advice on learning to write punch lines

CG Kid

New member
I got humble and realized about 6 months ago my vocabulary was weak. I proceeded to freestyle with only new words from a rhyming dictionary for 4 hours a day for around 4 months. I got a lot of words in my "flocabulary", what I'm struggling with is how to use them! I didn't realize having words means you can come up with entertaining punch lines.

You can hear it really bad here

https://soundcloud.com/bandit-shady/insane-in-the-membrane

It's like just a clump of rhymes lol.

My current writing style is write the lyrics to the beat in about 30 minutes, record in 30 minutes.

I'm curious if there's a practice regimen I can do to just write better rhymes. I considered just sitting to different beats for 4 hours a day and just writing rather then freestyle. I'm curious what you guys think...

I listen to Jarren Benton, Hopsin, Eminem, Rittz, Tech N9ne and notice a big difference that makes them a lot better is their lines. Sometimes I'm just like "dam! how did they think of that!" and get all jealous lol.
 
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haha damn you're determined
I prolly shouldn't be giving advice cause I cnt rap, but ****it
I listened to your track and I think the most important thing for you is to work on sounding.. audible? Like, I can hear that you're rapping your ass off in a sense, but I've no idea what you're saying a lot of the time and I don't think punchlines are going to solve that. Of course punchlines are great, but your prime focus should be delivery, a varied delivery. You got the Yelawolf flow on lock, but it gets a bit nauseating and quickly ceases to be interesting (I don't like Yelawolf though, maybe u do). Don't be scared of changing the tone of your voice a little. Put on some Eminem and try to rap along in the exact same pitch as he does, you'll notice that his voice goes up and down, emphasising the lyrics and keeping the rapping dramatic and conversational. Take 'Soldier' from The Eminem Show for instance, his voice all over the place, almost to the point of melody. Rhythmically he's also so varied that the flow doesn't succumb to some sort of Yelawolf-ish/Rap God hypnotherapeutic backpacker stunting. Basically, if you have something to say you won't rap like a machine. It's really good that you're practising your technical skills though.

I kinda got away from the point, but err, practise delivery. As for the punchlines, the key I think is to exploit the ambiguity of language and the fact that a lot of words and figures of speech can mean several things. Lil Wayne is notorious when it comes to this. I'd recommend watching some stand up comedy, as rappers aren't really the greatest comedians despite having their moments. There are masters in that field too that could teach you a lot more about timing and how to set up a punchline... Still though, if you haven't, check out Big L's first record, he's a great punchline-rapper. "Put his brains in the streets, now you can see what he was just thinkin'"
 
Dam dude, I feel like you said exactly what I needed to hear for real. People have been saying that too, that they have no idea what I'm saying on some of the tracks. Lately I've been getting this feeling that I'm focusing too much on the science and not enough on the art. I focus more on making a technical song then I focus on something that just sounds good. I'm taking steps back and learning to appreciate music I use to disdain. I'm so analytical when listening to rap I tear people apart in my mind (an example is Drake) rather then focus on what they're doing right (it sounds dam good) I'm focusing on their generic flows and simple rhyme schemes.

I really believe that memorizing the lyrics before recording is essential. I'm torn between reading and emphasis/feeling/confidence. Also when I'm going fast it's hard as hell to read that fast so I don't enunciate properly. I'm sure I can even go much faster if I wanted to and memorized the lyrics.

I believe it's key for my next CD to have a few songs where I do focus on technical skill, I do go wickedly fast with triple syllable rhymes - breaking and bending words - and mad punch lines. I wish every rapper did that. I feel like to earn my respect you have to show you know what you're doing, that you put hours into perfecting your craft, that what you can do is not what anyone can do. Not only that it's pleasant to the ear in small doses. But the rest of the CD should be free expression without confinement of focusing on one thing - to impress.

My focus for a long time has been to get the technical skill to be able to produce a song of this nature. What I gathered from this is I'd produce a more solid album if I took some steps back on focus on what I have been neglecting, and I totally agree.

Thank you,
CG Kid
 
Maaan you're admirably humble and you really seem to know what you should be doing. Think about technical skill the way the U.S. thinks about their military: Don't necessarily use it, but let everyone know that you have the most powerful one in the world "just in case". If you're shooting all the time, people are only gonna listen to you when shooting is what they want, which honestly isn't most of the time.
 
I got humble and realized about 6 months ago my vocabulary was weak. I proceeded to freestyle with only new words from a rhyming dictionary for 4 hours a day for around 4 months. I got a lot of words in my "flocabulary", what I'm struggling with is how to use them! I didn't realize having words means you can come up with entertaining punch lines.

You can hear it really bad here

https://soundcloud.com/bandit-shady/insane-in-the-membrane

It's like just a clump of rhymes lol.

My current writing style is write the lyrics to the beat in about 30 minutes, record in 30 minutes.

I'm curious if there's a practice regimen I can do to just write better rhymes. I considered just sitting to different beats for 4 hours a day and just writing rather then freestyle. I'm curious what you guys think...

I listen to Jarren Benton, Hopsin, Eminem, Rittz, Tech N9ne and notice a big difference that makes them a lot better is their lines. Sometimes I'm just like "dam! how did they think of that!" and get all jealous lol.

READ ALL OF THIS PLEASE, BECAUSE I SPENT ALOT OF TIME WRITING THIS FOR YOU

What are you trying to do exactly, are you trying to get better at coming up with new words, or get better at making punchlines?

They are two separate things

Also in terms of punchlines I don't really think Tech N9ne, Hopsin are "Good" at punchlines. It might just be what you think a punchline is.
Example : Hopsin to me is more funny, I don't see him as someone who has good punchlines, I see him as someone who just says crazy shit.
Tech N9ne I haven't listened to him in a while, but I used to listen to some of his shit along time ago, he isn't a punchline rapper either, he is more of a fast flow big word type of rapper + he has a hype style where its almost like he is a metal rapper.... but without using rock and roll beats.

Eminem is a mixture, Eminem is like one of the king so using big ass words and breaking down syllables, however Eminem is just DECENT at punchlines. The reason why Eminem seems crazily over powered when it comes to rapping is because he has everything!!!!

PS: Eminem is not my fav rapper, but I am just telling you why he is so above everyone else. He doesn't excel in everything, but he brings everything. Eminem can do anything, he can use big words, he can use punchlines, he can rap about being a homooo, he can talk about licking his own sack, he can talk about shooting people, he can make good chorus's, he is lyrical, he can make dance music, he can make club music, he can make gangster music.

My point, Eminem is good because he is one of the few people who can do everything, for example, 50 cent would sound gay as hell if he was to talk gay, if 50 cent rapped like Eminem nobody would like 50 cent.

Out of all those rappers (Never listen to Benton or Rittz so I can't speak on those) Eminem is the best at punchlines but Eminem is no where super good at them. What Eminem is super good at is A: Using big words and rhyming more than one word, B: Breaking down syllables C: he can do every style and get away with it.

WHAT I THINK

Punchlines and vocabulary are two different things

My vocabulary is just "Decent", but I promise you I would shit on most people with punchlines, but others could shit on me wit big words.

If you want bigger vocabulary the only way to achieve that is by "Learning new words", you can sit at your computer all day 24/7 and you would never learn any more words, why? Because how would you if you don't even know the words, your brain is not going to randomly give you big words that it never learned before, the only way to learn big words is to hear them or see them.

* If you want to learn bigger vocab like Eminem or them guys, then you have to read out of the dictionary, find like 3 new words a day and learn them, you don't have to use them in a rap but just learn them. Even if you only learned 1 word per day that would be 365 new words per year, more words mean more things to rhyme, and more things you can think of.

Punchlines is a different story, there is no secret to get good with punchlines, you don't need to know big words to destroy someone with punchlines, the only way to get good at punchlines is to compare things in the most creative way possible. For example : If you said "Green as Grass" that is a punchline but is sucks because its not creative and anyone can think of it. If you said "Put a red dot in his eye like the ****ing terminator" Lloyd banks said that, its more creative because not just anyone can think of it or it has never been said.

To sum it up
- If you want vocab, you have to read a dictionary and learn new words, there is no other way unless you search words online
- If you want to be better at punchlines you have to continuously write punchlines, the thing with punchlines is there is no easy way to get good at making good punchlines, you have to just do it for along time and you will evolve like a pokemon to just "become better".

At the end of the day you don't have to do what your favorite rappers do, you just need to find your style and improve on what you think makes you "You". Just based on hearing you I would say you sound like someone who would lean more towards rhyming big words, to me it seems like you would want to focus more on rhyming words nobody thinks to rhyme. Unless you don't think that is your style.

Both take a lot of time either way you go


Best example I can use is this: https://soundcloud.com/icen-3/twin-busters-freestyle
Skip to : 1:00 and listen to the punchlines and vocab and how many words I rhyme, I capitalized the rhymes below in the song.

Yea... Yea... My handgun got a BAG OF TRICKS,
MAG-NUM CLIPS, equip with the lase (Lays) like a BAG OF CHIPS.

If you notice, my vocab is not good at all, its just average, my punchlines are better than most people and sometimes I rhyme better than most people and I will explain why.

Those are only two bars
- In those two bars I rhymed 9 words compared to 2 words that most people rhyme in 2 bars.

Usually people will rhyme Cat at the end of the first bar, then in the next bar end the rhyme with Bat.

The tip is to try to always use at least 2 rhymes at the end of every bar

So the first rhyme the last two words would be Dead Cat, and in the second bar the last two rhymes would be Red Bat. You will always sound better using two rhymes per bar then just rhyming one, for proof of this listen to any good rapper like Eminem, 50 cent, ect, they all do this.

So what I am saying is, you don't have to be good at everything, just make sure you figure out what you are best at and I would stick with that, of course whatever you think you are not good at you could improve it would never hurt but its not a must. For example me, I do not use big vocabulary because its not my style, I am better at punchlines, however someone like you might be better at using big words and rhyming faster.

You seem like you like to rhyme faster and use bigger complicated words and rhyme them.
I am more of a use punchlines at a decent pace type rapper.

ITS NOT THE PUNCHLINES THAT MAKE THEM BETTER
- I can tell you this is a fact, I know what good punchlines are, Tech N9ne and hopsin would get destoryed by someone like Cassidy in terms of punchlines, its not their punchlines that is making them good.

- Tech N9ne sounds amazing because he rhymes a bunch of big worded rhymes that nobody else uses and his flow is on point while rapping really fast.
- They sound good because they use the secret tip I told you, they all "rhyme at least two words per bar".

Punchlines only matter if you have super crazy punchlines other wise you will just have regular punchlines that still make you no different, where as if you improve on something you already think you are better at you will be known for that instead.

MY FINAL TIP

Stick to what you think you are better at, what do you think you are better at then someone else isn't? Take that and improve that, because that is what makes you different. The thing you want to do is take something you are already good at and make you better at it, not take something you suck at and make yourself "Less sucky at it"

For example

I cannot sing like Beyonce, there is NO POINT of me trying to practice singing, even if I go from sucky to less sucky its still a waste of time.

Stick to what you think you are best at and improve on that, find out what you are not good at and decide if its worth improving or if its not worth your time if you know you won't be good at it, like I said I CANNOT SING like beyonce so there is no point of my trying to improve my singing when I will still suck.
 
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Sorry for that big ass post, but I know for a fact you will find this interesting.

You know Eminem? You know how good he is? What if I told you he used to sound super horrible? Would you believe it?
What if I told you, if you were to hear Eminem before he was good you would call him the worst rapper ever???

Don't believe me, this proves that practicing can make you a animal at rapping.
Go on youtube, search "Pooh Butt Day" actually here is the link of Eminem when he sucked ass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykb7E7j_J1E

Eminem was strait garbage, the only reason he has likes is because everyone knows its "Eminem", but if Eminem was not a known rapper and someone like you or me made that type of shit and posted it up on here people would call it garbage because it is garbage. I would not listen to Eminem if he made that type of music.

My point is, Eminem became good through hard work, it is proven by seeing how horrible he was before he was good. That is why I never make fun of someone who raps, because that person may sound like shit if they just started but they could be like Eminem and become one of the best rappers in the future.
 
Thats how I do it to. I get influenced by other rap songs and look up funny sounding words I dont understand that they say
 
hey bro, like a lotta people are saying the lyrics and flow is dope! it really showcases your talent at it! Like some people are saying, it's just really hard to stay with you and listen to the beat at the same time- The frequencies fight each other. I've always thought, there are TONS of dope rappers who, if they had a chance to shine they would, but the Audio prevents it. If it doesn't sound appealing to the ear, regardless of lyrics, people will support you, but they wont take the time to actually feel a connection with your music.

in my mind, especially in songs these days, it is all about the right audio-engineer who knows how to work like the professionals, otherwise your music will only remain demo quality.
 
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I just got on here and saw these replies, I really needed it now. I just finished producing an album and am back to practicing technique.

Man seeing that I posted that in April is shocking, I feel I've gotten a lot better since then. I practice probably 4 hours a day on average. Here's some examples of what I've been doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpPQ2Y2hVxU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lmvCPQfEc

https://soundcloud.com/bandit-shady/best-of-me

https://soundcloud.com/bandit-shady/pop-off-feat-cleva-thoughts-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3WzuP7PEXg

BlazeInst I totally agree, I was using Garageband and didn't realize how shitty it was. Also I was using a dope mic and pre-amp on a crappy interface (scarlett 6i6). I since upgraded to a Forte interface and started using Pro Tools 11, worlds of difference. I'm still learning it which is addictive and fun.

ICEN, thank you for the post! I totally get what you're saying! It's crazy cause that rhyming the last two words each line I started figuring out a little while ago. In the song I posted above (Best Of Me) which is my latest song I start to do that for the first time. I'm going back through my flocabulary and categorizing words as well. The way I'm categorizing now is if they're a verb, noun, adjective, and adverb. It may seem like common sense, but it's helped me be more descriptive. I feel like in the writing process the least amount of blocks possible is ideal.

So if I'm writing a line

I got a ____ brain
Livin in ____ ways
Syring ___ my veins
Feel a ____ pain

I don't want to be sitting there forever to think "ok what words in my flocabulary describe those things and also rhyme?" I want them to come quick and have more then one to choose from

I got a (wicked, insane, killed) brain
LIvin in (twisted, deranged, ill) ways
Syringe (deep in, penetrates, separates) my veins
Feel a (seeping, infiltrating, devastating) pain

That took me a minute, but now I got these progressions to choose from. The fact that each word is descriptive means I can pain a picture for the audience to bring them where I want them.

I'm back to freestyle, which I also refer to as my "core". For me I'm pretty convinced freestyle is the best way to get better. The reason being is repetition allows me to incorporate rhymes in my long term memory, the fact it isn't premeditated gives me the ability to come up with better lyrics faster, and the act of rapping makes flow and vocal strength develop. So I sit in front of a mic on direct monitor with headphones on and a youtube rap beat channel playing and just freestyle 4 hours a day. The difference is, before I was concentrating on picking up new words, now I'm more so focusing on correlation and how I can use a word.

So I will go to a rhyme progression and pull out the descriptive words, then rhyme those with ones I pulled out or know as verbs/nouns. It's tedious as hell, that's how I know I need improvement because it's a challenge. I been doing it a week and it's getting a little easier.

To take you on a short ride of what I do, I will go to "it" syllable and pull out descriptive words

split, slit for example

Then I will say "ok what other syllables can rhyme with "it"?"

big, slick, sick, swift

Now "I'm gonna cross correlate those with the "aine" syllable

I got a big pain
Livin in a sick brain
Spit swift octanes
Slick and insane
Split my lanes slit my veins rip my remains

That's shitty but it's an example of a freestyle. The important thing is correlating words so when I'm thinking of what to write words will flow faster with less required thought, and if I think harder I'll come up with better material.

I love rap and I do it for the music, the music's always my priority. That being said, I do enjoy being listened to in order to have a positive influence on peoples lives. Because of this, I realize I need to target my fan base, not to sure how to do this. It's easier for me to target who isn't my fan base. Essentially, I don't care to rap about hoe's and clothes :p.

I've heard to be real with who you are, but the rap I enjoy isn't necessarily a depiction of who I am. People love Eminem, I love Eminem, but am I some psycho guy from Detroit? No. Eminem in interviews says his music is his art and wants his personality separated from his music, he went as far as to say profanity isn't even allowed in his house. To me it's confusing ground to find "my style" and there's really not much advice on how to do it. Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, this is important. When are you "ready" to market? I've learned this from sales, that if I try to sell something someone's already tried and didn't care for, I have to go above and beyond to get them to make the purchase again. I'm assuming music's a lot like this, in other words, it's best to get it right the first time. Treat my first impression as if it's my only impression. If I first heard Hopsin and he was whack, I'd probably never listen to him again and if I did he'd have to be really dope to get rid of his tarnished reputation in my eyes.

At the same time this mentality of "ready' can become perfectionism which would cause me to procrastinate ever promoting and do more harm then good.

So how do you know when you're ready, when you ARE good enough?

That's where I'm at now and it's exciting, once again thank you all for the input!
 
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