Old MTV news clip on Sampling from 1988
- Thread starter Xabiton
- Start date
SoundSplash
relic
funny how 23 years later, this conflict is still at the exact same place it was in 1988
Xabiton
Cupcake God
I dont think we will ever come to a clear concrete solution until we get some set in stone laws about sampling itself. What is and is not okay? Basically the courts are saying pay for it and people kinda went with it without fighting but now people can just throw a wild number out there but I think with this generation of producers and where music is headed that clearance laws will not only be basically ignored in most cases but they will not even really matter in say 2030 because there is too much music to keep up with now I can only imagine how it will be in 20 years.
Smokinthuthespeakers
Ro Smith
this was interesting.look how dumbfounded the original artists were about sampling lol.u take a 2 sec chop n all of a sudden they think they are the ones whos selling ur record 4 u.what a joke bt this does make me think harder about using multiple samples in a track
quantumleap
New member
this was a really cool video..i was just 1 at the time of it being aired lol...damn.
but i never really thought about it..... say you make a hit SAMPLED beat using X amount of sampled from Y amount of songs......Not only is it possible you will be sued....but you might catch Z amount of lawsuits instead of just 1...which sounds scary if you think about it.
---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------
Well, in the Hip Hop section of this website, there is a thread about an Egyptian rights holder suing Jay Z/Timbaland for the "Big Pimpin" song....off the top of my head, that is one of the more modern examples of this... so its 2011 now..Big Pimpin was what..2004... So it took quite a few years for the rights holder to realize and say "hey, pay me money!" I can see the same issues being played in 20 years...but instead of taking 7-8 years to come across it....it may take another 20...ya know? But then again....With so much going digital..I can also see if you make music...you have to release it thru a main company that keeps track of all music..so if someone were to sample it...the company would know....And really that doesnt sound too far fetched seeing how on smartphones, you can hold the phone to a speaker and have it tell you what song you're listening to....get what I'm saying?
G
Gilson
Guest
LOL at Steve Stevens
J
J-Lou
Guest
damn I wasn't even born yet.
A
AudioCzar
Guest
This issue is overrated & all ways has been aside from that beastie boys case,jay z big pimpin case & like a few others these lawsuit cases are RARE ! y'all act like people getting sued left & right all the time !! If I had to take a conservative guess there have been 100's more than likely 1000's of songs releaesed with samples & like 5 cases so it's not a big deal
Xabiton
Cupcake God
Not all cases become public but there have been tons of them. Just because you don't know of them doesn't make it an overrated issue. The cases aren't as common now because people just clear them to avoid trials. Last big case I heard about besides big pimpin which is total bs btw. Is when Fabolous and Just Blaze got sued for breathe. I don't think Fab even raps on samples anymore kuz of that
Smokinthuthespeakers
Ro Smith
fab just came out with mixtape called the soul tape. most the tracks are sampled
quantumleap
New member
Well he most likely isn't selling the mixtape...If it is not being sold...there is no risk of getting sued, because you are not selling/making money off the product. Now once that mixtape receives an income....it is liable for lawsuit if the samples are not cleared
jetwingfighter
New member
dopedopedope
Smokinthuthespeakers
Ro Smith
SRM_HipHop
Return Of The High Five!
Yeah but that track "killen em" has the substitution break and thats on a major release right?
quantumleap
New member
I duno man...havnt heard the song so I dont know what you're talkin about.....but when dude said he doesnt use samples in beats anymore... i don't think drum breaks were included.... i think he meant more along the lines of like "yeah, that song is hot..I'm guna cut a 6 second loop out of it and chop it up"... cuz if you think about it...listen to drums.. each genre may have different/general patterns...but for the most they're all the same... most rock music use the same exact drum patterns...its cool. but if Band A made a song using the same melody line as Band B's hit song.....thats copyright violation.....nobody cares about drums..Shit, you can even buy Records of nothing but drum beats, which were created for the soul purpose to be sampled by producers to make instrumentals.
SRM_HipHop
Return Of The High Five!
Havent heard synthetic substitution? Oh yes you have trust me. As far as the drums on killen em its a straight loop of substitution not like one hits or nothing.
Heres the tracks so you can compare.
Good topic for discussion tho i must say.
quantumleap
New member
yeah i've heard that drum loop several times.... just didn't know it by the name. only drum beat i can recognize with a name is the Amen break...but yeah, its like this in my opinion.... if you sample a drum loop...i dont see a big deal..if you were to really really dig deep...i bet you'd find drums damn near identical to that break beat in earlier songs..ya get what im sayin? but this one was made known and popular because it was on the record where no vocals or music was..so it was prime opportunity for samplers..so to sue someone over usage of drums, in my opinion is just asinine because realistically, somewhere, someone already used that pattern. its your basic, everyday, normal 4/4 pattern on the drums...there are only so many variations you can use to keep the beat going..thats what i'm pointing out...
that takes me back to rock drums... you got Kick - and - Snare - and - Kick - and - Snare with a hi hat on every beat as well....how many songs have had a basic drum pattern such as that? literally hundreds of thousands.. I really don't see drum breaks being considered as the same type of samples as sampling an Al Green song...where there is music...and you identify the beat by "oh yeah, thats an al green song!". When the MUSIC is being sampled...I feel its different type of sample altogether, because as I previously mentioned, the drum pattern has more than likely been used several times by other artists/bands. I mean, how can you copyright a 4/4 drum pattern? That's ridiculous.
that takes me back to rock drums... you got Kick - and - Snare - and - Kick - and - Snare with a hi hat on every beat as well....how many songs have had a basic drum pattern such as that? literally hundreds of thousands.. I really don't see drum breaks being considered as the same type of samples as sampling an Al Green song...where there is music...and you identify the beat by "oh yeah, thats an al green song!". When the MUSIC is being sampled...I feel its different type of sample altogether, because as I previously mentioned, the drum pattern has more than likely been used several times by other artists/bands. I mean, how can you copyright a 4/4 drum pattern? That's ridiculous.
SRM_HipHop
Return Of The High Five!
They dont hold a copyright on the pattern itself so much as the actual sound recording. So like in the case of substitution for example, the way the drums were miked and how the engineer did the sound is all part of that recording, thats what they have copy-written. If someone can recreate it or "interpolate" it then so be it, but in order to use the actual recording you would need to clear it as a sample.
With that being said I will continue to use breaks and/or samples because I aint making huge hits like that. But when the time comes I have an understanding of mostly how it works and I feel thats important as well as also feeling like everyone should just do what they want, be creative, and worry about the legalities later.
With that being said I will continue to use breaks and/or samples because I aint making huge hits like that. But when the time comes I have an understanding of mostly how it works and I feel thats important as well as also feeling like everyone should just do what they want, be creative, and worry about the legalities later.
Last edited:
Xabiton
Cupcake God
Its a mix tape lol. I meant on major releases. At least I don't remember many since then,
And I am proven wrong. I did forget about that track.
People get sued for individual drum hits and loops. If its your recording it s your recording in the laws eyes. The copyright isnt on the pattern its on the recording. And yes people have been used over drum loops
there are lots of things you can do with drums if you are creative and move away from the 4/4 realm. I mean even in 4/4 there is a lot but in hip hop people tend to stick to only a few patterns
hollandturbine
New member
The interesting thing about this video is they are referencing Coldcut's remix of Paid in Full that was comprised of material taken from another sample based work, Pump Up the Volume by MARRS.