Does looping samples make you any less of a beat maker or producer?
- Thread starter NinjaNess
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Mysto
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NinjaNess said:
no offense but to me thats like saying stealing a record is much easier then creating one
someone who straight loops and adds nothing of their own except a drum pattern isnt really a beatmaker or are they, maybe just that, a "beat" maker since their just adding drums . Plus do u really wanna deal with sample clearances in a day and age when thats the last thing a label wants to hear, to a label a sample = them loosing more $$ on clearing in a time where they are already not making enough from album sales, especially a straight looped sample where they get hit over the head. Just my 2 cents
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Tohtruck
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Most of the greats and most of the great hip-hop songs from way back when were pretty much based on loops. In a way I can see how it was more of a skill back then considering the technology. Getting a sample to loop with an SP-1200 must have been a pain. DJ's must have spent hours on the decks juggling beats and looping records. Today, since the technology has developed so much and made certain things alot easier, it creates a demand for beatmakers and electronic musicians to be more creative in the use of the improved technology. But when it comes down to it: if it sounds good, it sounds good. Nonetheless I don't think you should feel discouraged to be bound just by looping, try pushing out of those boundaries even if it does sound like crap. It'll help you become more creative in terms of your techniques and use of the technology. A good loop is nice, but chopping and trying other things allows you to become better at manipulating the sample to sound different and possibly better (for your beat that is).
I suck at chopping also. My better beats are usually based on loops too. But I still try to chop to look for sounds that can be manipulated re-arranged or emphasized, you never know what you'll find.
It doesn't make you any less of a beatmaker but I think you end up limiting your skills and creativity in the long run by bounding yourself. If you're going to loop I say try to at least dig for some rare and unusual grooves (probably impossible to do these days) that are unheard of or possibly never used before. I think listening and finding a loop on a record is a skill on its own. I think you should (if you aren't already) also try to add instruments to the loop just to add to the creativity and textures of whatever loop you use: Drum hits of course, synth section, strings, stabs, overdubs of live sounds, etc. Get creative.
I suck at chopping also. My better beats are usually based on loops too. But I still try to chop to look for sounds that can be manipulated re-arranged or emphasized, you never know what you'll find.
It doesn't make you any less of a beatmaker but I think you end up limiting your skills and creativity in the long run by bounding yourself. If you're going to loop I say try to at least dig for some rare and unusual grooves (probably impossible to do these days) that are unheard of or possibly never used before. I think listening and finding a loop on a record is a skill on its own. I think you should (if you aren't already) also try to add instruments to the loop just to add to the creativity and textures of whatever loop you use: Drum hits of course, synth section, strings, stabs, overdubs of live sounds, etc. Get creative.
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Xabiton
Cupcake God
the problem most people who are new to sampling bump into is over chopping and knowing when to chop and when to loop. It doesnt make you any less of a beatmaker to loop sometimes but theres a difference between looping sometimes and always looping. Most will agree that Kanye is a good producer who often loops as the same with Just Blaze, Rza, 9th Wonder, and a lot more. Instead of trying to chop your instruments into itty bitty pieces try chopping your loops into smaller loops and playing those like instruments. If it sounds like sh*t you probabaly did too much. Its hiphop its not as hard as we make it sometimes
I usually feel u add great advice to the threads here and I don't feel that this is really bad advice I just disagree. I mean aren't we in the business to put together good sounding music even if it is just a loop. To me the only reason I can see to not sample or to not loop is simply money. Granted to a lot of people are only looking for money and thats fine theres nothing wrong with getting paid to do what you love. I like it when I get paid for beats but theres a fine line between creativity and freedom to create and just looking for money. If a loop sparks ones creativity or inspires them how can it be wrong? Maybe Im weird but I feel there is a point where we have to let our pride go and just do what feels rightMysto said:no offense but to me thats like saying stealing a record is much easier then creating one
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MySpace Gangsta
New member
What do you consider chopping? If you chop out four 1 bar loops and put them together to make a 4 bar loop, is that chopping? Cuz really, all you did was put 4 loops together........
Or do you have to chop individual sounds and "hits" for it to be considered chopping?
At the end of the day, the fans could care less
Or do you have to chop individual sounds and "hits" for it to be considered chopping?
At the end of the day, the fans could care less
M
Mysto
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Xabiton said:
hmm we probably shouldnt continue this topic lol cause it will lead to a sample vs compose thread
and im sure everyone is tired of those. But just to clear up my point of view> i disagree with the idea that the only reason not to sample is money. in fact i think i can turn each of your statements exactly around and make it work vice versa such as the claim there is "a fine line between creativity and freedom to create and just looking for money". Cause technically composing ur own stuff gives u more creativity and freedom then a sample ever will and in fact i can just as easily say those who sample are in it only for the money, cause all they doing is taking someones else thing, remixing it kinda, and selling, quick $$ flip .But Really the biggest reason that me and pizzi dont sample (besides the creative freedom is gives us to do whatever we want) is the fact that in the end of the day, once we finish a record, it feels darn good to know that we created that from scratch, from our head based on our taste and our love of music. Where on the other hand if we sampled we would straight up feel unresponsible for the creation u know, i wouldnt be able to walk around proudly saying i created that knowing that someone else actually did.
But this topic gets crazy and in the end there are alot of different variations to this u know, u got the people who straight jack a loop, then those who chop, then those who take 1 little element and add 20 of their own, then you got the diddy's who remake a record in their own view which i still do give props too as well
. Just dont want my view being misunderstood, i dont hate samplers, i personally just dont give them as much props "musically" as someone who created it all by themselves cause to me thats musicianship. But thats just me cause i come from a tough classical musical background
also, and this aint about money, but a sample/loop based beatmaker really is limited in the music world creative freedom-wise. Im talking bout music besides hiphop. Lets say you had to get in the studio with Rihanna tomorrow, if ur a sample based producer then you most likely will not have enough time or resources to find a sample to "fit" her sound because u might not even know what "her sound" will be or what shes looking for up until ur in there the next day and she tells u i wanna do something crazy like this..... etc. etc. If your a true composer then you'll be able to bangout whatever, whenever.
lol i wrote alot there i think i might have gotten carried away, gotta go to sleep now hehe hope i clarified my point.. peace
Xabiton
Cupcake God
you make very good points. I have nothing against keyboard or sample based producers infact I do both. Not saying Im a great keyboard player but I can play some. I find myself being more creative with a sample because I want to turn it into my vision rather than just making a copy of someone else work and I'm limited to what the sample offers. I guess it all depends on the user tho. You and Pizzi are amazing keyboard players and thats what you do I think you should stick to what your best at but I think sampling is a skill in itself just not a traditional musical skill. And your very right about the Rhianna thing. A sound like hers wouldn't fare well with a lot of sampling imo. She does well with synths but at the same time some people's style fits better over samples too. And now Im talking too much someone is going to come in here and catch feelings and start a keyboard vs sample debate. Ill shut up now lolMysto said:hmm we probably shouldnt continue this topic lol cause it will lead to a sample vs compose thread
But Really the biggest reason that me and pizzi dont sample (besides the creative freedom is gives us to do whatever we want) is the fact that in the end of the day, once we finish a record, it feels darn good to know that we created that from scratch, from our head based on our taste and our love of music. Where on the other hand if we sampled we would straight up feel unresponsible for the creation u know, i wouldnt be able to walk around proudly saying i created that knowing that someone else actually did.
But this topic gets crazy and in the end there are alot of different variations to this u know, u got the people who straight jack a loop, then those who chop, then those who take 1 little element and add 20 of their own, then you got the diddy's who remake a record in their own view which i still do give props too as well
Just dont want my view being misunderstood, i dont hate samplers, i personally just dont give them as much props "musically" as someone who created it all by themselves cause to me thats musicianship. But thats just me cause i come from a tough classical musical background
also, and this aint about money, but a sample/loop based beatmaker really is limited in the music world creative freedom-wise. Im talking bout music besides hiphop. Lets say you had to get in the studio with Rihanna tomorrow, if ur a sample based producer then you most likely will not have enough time or resources to find a sample to "fit" her sound because u might not even know what "her sound" will be or what shes looking for up until ur in there the next day and she tells u i wanna do something crazy like this..... etc. etc. If your a true composer then you'll be able to bangout whatever, whenever.
lol i wrote alot there i think i might have gotten carried away, gotta go to sleep now hehe hope i clarified my point.. peace
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Davey_Dave
New member
i guess Dre, Kanye, Blaze, Premo, etc aren't very good producers because they all have & sometimes still do loop. all you fools saying it's not creative, it's too easy, etc & you sit there choppin the absolute hell out of something & it ends up being wack as hell.
J
junebugz
Guest
I agree with MYSTO. If feels good and LEGIT when you create something from scratch that you CAN LEGALLY publish your own. I have took professional music lessons for years and it shows in my material.
I'm not against sample based "producers" but I don't feel right stealing other people work (unless they give clearance).
Again, I'm not against sample based producers but to me its like taking a famous published painting, and adding 4 brush strokes to it and calling it yours. It's not yours (its a illegal deriverative work which you cannot sell or publish legally). If and when "your painting" gets famous, you will get sued big time........
I have credits with my own ORIGINAL UNSAMPLED work. I don't have to clear anything. That is how I operate and I wouldn't do it any other way. But that is just me.
But if you prefer sampling, then do that. Do what is best for you.
I'm not against sample based "producers" but I don't feel right stealing other people work (unless they give clearance).
Again, I'm not against sample based producers but to me its like taking a famous published painting, and adding 4 brush strokes to it and calling it yours. It's not yours (its a illegal deriverative work which you cannot sell or publish legally). If and when "your painting" gets famous, you will get sued big time........
I have credits with my own ORIGINAL UNSAMPLED work. I don't have to clear anything. That is how I operate and I wouldn't do it any other way. But that is just me.
But if you prefer sampling, then do that. Do what is best for you.
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NastyNewJersey
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whatever you fools say the greatest songs in hiphop have always been sampled, and not chopped to death like the crap yall post. im not against chopping but you guys take it too far claiming that looping is anything but art. i get mad when i here make you better, or TROY, or the tru york intro. i dont get mad because they just threw some drums on a loop and made a great beat, i get mad cus i didnt get the sample first. all of you are stuck in some fantasy world where people want to hear ****ty beats that are chopped into unrecognizable pieces because thats "real hiphop". im not tryna be an ******* but ive only heard like two producers on here who make good beats with lots of chops and the rest of it sounds like ****. you guys need to stop following the crowd and get real.
luke locks
New member
I'd say keep working your ass off at chopping and flipping samples. If you straight loop it, you gotta be able to add your own sounds other than drums and bass. I know this dude thats a total stan for Dr. Dre's Chronic. He told me that those songs were all loops but had live instrumentation over them, so that's kinda how he dus it. He loops adds drums n bass and plus keys or strings/guitars whatever.
MySpace Gangsta
New member
NastyNewJersey said:
Real talk
I actually think that whenever I hear a loop on how brilliant that is.
I love the K.I.S.S school of thought.
Anyways,the job of a producer is to make the artist be hot,it's not about how creative he or she is.
The rapper or singer is the most important element and few understand that.
I'm not sure if most System of a Down fans care whether Rick Rubin produced their album...haha
So the answer to this thread is no...Lil' Wayne on a phat loop could be a classic or a boring rapper(Talib Kweli) on a beautifully chopped beat will be ok to the average fan but forgettable.
I love the K.I.S.S school of thought.
Anyways,the job of a producer is to make the artist be hot,it's not about how creative he or she is.
The rapper or singer is the most important element and few understand that.
I'm not sure if most System of a Down fans care whether Rick Rubin produced their album...haha
So the answer to this thread is no...Lil' Wayne on a phat loop could be a classic or a boring rapper(Talib Kweli) on a beautifully chopped beat will be ok to the average fan but forgettable.
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NastyNewJersey
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thats the best way. you shouldnt pass up a great loop just cus it wont be 100% original.bobsmitt said:
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