For those who have actually cleared samples before.....

1

16 Bit Spit

New member
I'm over being paralyzed by the fear of being sued and having artists liking the beats but not wanting to use sampled beats. Can I make beats without them, sure. But I prefer the sound of the culture.
If you've cleared a sample before, how was the process? Was it long/costly? Is it worth it for smaller artists?

I just want to do whats honest and right and put out dope hip hop.

P.S. If you're going to sweat me about sampling or cry about "looping" other artists hard work, save that crap and go hug yourself. Nobody has time for it.

Peace peace.
 
Unless your track makes a mint - what are they actually gonna sue you for?

I'm broke and sample shit frequently... I'm broke though - ain't a lawyer daft enough to sue me!

You need to just chill - play the game.
 
That is contradictory because you're worried about the exact opposite of hiphop.
Samples can be used in many ways, not as flexible as synthesis due to the nature of samples but basically you are worrying about something that's not even an issue in the first place.

Clearing samples ranges from asking permission to clearing the sample the regular way.
While sampling is still nice, synthesis and digital instruments are also useful tools.

Sampled based music is a double-edged sword.
 
I'mNoGuru said:
Unless your track makes a mint - what are they actually gonna sue you for?

I'm broke and sample shit frequently... I'm broke though - ain't a lawyer daft enough to sue me!

You need to just chill - play the game.
Click to expand...

That's a half truth but I understand your logic. Bob James sued Madlib for flipping "Nautilus: and Stonesthrow is not exactly on the mainstream's radar:

According to a report on Gothamcityesq.com jazz great Bob James is suing respected producer and MC Madlib for copyright infringement. James alleges in court documents that The Madliberator sampled his classic “Nautilus” in the song “Sparkdala” without his permission.
The song in question is actually produced by DJ Design and originally appeared on a Stones Throw 12″ in 2001, but was re-released on Madlib’s 2013 compilation Yessir Whatever, his third under his Quasimoto alias.
James’ “Nautilus” is one of the most sampled songs in hip-hop, serving as the underbelly to classic tracks by Ghostface Killah, Pete Rock and CL Smooth and dozens more. However, he doesn’t play when it comes to his work and sued Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince for their uncleared use of “Westchester Lady” on their song “Touch Of Jazz.”
What seems to be sticking in the craw of many is the statement in the lawsuit that seems to throw shade at hip-hop producers.
“One of the problems that confront many ‘Hip Hop’ or ‘Rap’ artists is that they are unable to achieve an instrumental background musical sound quality for their works,” James states. “As a result, they borrow or ‘sample,’ therefore infringe the performance and composition of others in this case, the copy written works of James.”
“From my standpoint, I had to take a stand about it, because the copyright, and the maintaining of the ownership of copyright, are the most valuable and important things that we have in this business. And the control over the usage of it. And to have someone attempt to take that out from under you is a very big deal. And it’s a bigger deal from the standpoint of the record companies than the artist.”
However, in a recent interview with Nahright.com, James spoke extensively about the song’s usage in hip-hop and how it fascinated him.
“There was one time when a friend of mine in New York was trying to put together a compilation project, asking hip-hop producers to just take ‘Nautilus’ as a jumping off place, and each hip-hop artist would do ‘Nautilus’ in their own way. I don’t think he ever finished it. But he sent me three or four of these from different hip-hop artists, and it was fascinating, because all of them were completely different. Some of them used the song from beginning to end. Some of them re-recorded it, and used my bass line vamp, and they would re-record the drums, with a similar groove. There have been so many variations of it, that it always puts a big smile on my face just to even think about it. How could I have possibly predicted this outcome could happen? [Laughs.]”
Getting sued over samples is nothing new in hip-hop, but many fans are pointing to the recent “Blurred Lines” verdict in favor of Marvin Gaye’s estate for bringing renewed attention to the practice. If this is a sign of things to come, expect law offices to be very busy over the next few years.
http://watchloud.com/listen-to-the-madlib-song-bob-james-is-suing-over-sparkdala/

He's really flattered but it's an opportunity to make money:

 
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Seems to be a lot of paranoia about sampling on this board. :(
Even the battle board is dead because of "Youtube only samples".
What do they think I can't record youtube into an audio editor, or a sampler, and that's somehow different than uploading links?
Is it somehow legally different to allow people to post a youtube link, and announce making a beat containing youtube samples, and then openly posting those beats on soundcloud who also has rules against sampling (you wouldn't know it). Lol at this place.
 
Back in my day...labels cleared samples. It consisted of them contacting owners of whatever song you used and negotiating a percentage or upfront rate that came out of your pay as the producer of a record. This ONLY occurred when a record was being considered for commercial release on a major scale. That meant, if even the biggest name artist was just dropping a mixtape with a beat with a sample on it, the label gave no consideration to clearing the record. It was to costly and your turnaround in profit wasn't worth it. Keep in mind, majority of the time, the record is cleared thru another label that owns the rights to it, so you're contacting Interscope, not Aftermath, not Shady, not G-Unit, and not Tony Yayo himself if you want to sample him saying "Yeah!" He'll probably never see a penny, and he'd more than likely be the only guy in that chain who'd recognize his "yeah!" if you used it.

The way around this is to create a contract that says you're not selling the "beat", but being compensated for your time and work in the creation of a track that contains a sample while making it known to the artist a sample was used. This makes the artist assume all responsibilities for the sample being used. If they don't want to do that, they don't want a sampled beat. No other way around it because, LEGALLY, you can never 100% own a beat that you've sampled to sell it without also owning the work that contains the sample. That means every new venture your sampled beat takes may take you down the road of again negotiating. So, you clear a sample for an album, now a TV show wants to use the song, depending on your clearance, you may be right back clearing that sample again. Now it's picked up for a commercial, needs clearance again, now, say the owner of the song doesn't like the product the commercial is promoting, he has the right to say "NO!" or, only if I get every penny.

The point I'm making is, sampling is an art form and a key element in certain styles of hip hop. If you like the sound, just do your thing, and worry about everything else when it becomes a factor. The most you're going to ever get sued for is every penny you've made off the song, lol. And that won't happen until a song gets really famous. Could be worth it. If you don't think so, don't sample, or use royalty free stuff(classical music, stuff actually sold to be used in movies and on TV, ect.), final option, mangle samples so well they're not recognizable.
 
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benji2 said:
That's a half truth but I understand your logic. Bob James sued Madlib for flipping "Nautilus: and Stonesthrow is not exactly on the mainstream's radar:

According to a report on Gothamcityesq.com jazz great Bob James is suing respected producer and MC Madlib for copyright infringement. James alleges in court documents that The Madliberator sampled his classic “Nautilus” in the song “Sparkdala” without his permission.
The song in question is actually produced by DJ Design and originally appeared on a Stones Throw 12″ in 2001, but was re-released on Madlib’s 2013 compilation Yessir Whatever, his third under his Quasimoto alias.
James’ “Nautilus” is one of the most sampled songs in hip-hop, serving as the underbelly to classic tracks by Ghostface Killah, Pete Rock and CL Smooth and dozens more. However, he doesn’t play when it comes to his work and sued Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince for their uncleared use of “Westchester Lady” on their song “Touch Of Jazz.”
What seems to be sticking in the craw of many is the statement in the lawsuit that seems to throw shade at hip-hop producers.
“One of the problems that confront many ‘Hip Hop’ or ‘Rap’ artists is that they are unable to achieve an instrumental background musical sound quality for their works,” James states. “As a result, they borrow or ‘sample,’ therefore infringe the performance and composition of others in this case, the copy written works of James.”
“From my standpoint, I had to take a stand about it, because the copyright, and the maintaining of the ownership of copyright, are the most valuable and important things that we have in this business. And the control over the usage of it. And to have someone attempt to take that out from under you is a very big deal. And it’s a bigger deal from the standpoint of the record companies than the artist.”
However, in a recent interview with Nahright.com, James spoke extensively about the song’s usage in hip-hop and how it fascinated him.
“There was one time when a friend of mine in New York was trying to put together a compilation project, asking hip-hop producers to just take ‘Nautilus’ as a jumping off place, and each hip-hop artist would do ‘Nautilus’ in their own way. I don’t think he ever finished it. But he sent me three or four of these from different hip-hop artists, and it was fascinating, because all of them were completely different. Some of them used the song from beginning to end. Some of them re-recorded it, and used my bass line vamp, and they would re-record the drums, with a similar groove. There have been so many variations of it, that it always puts a big smile on my face just to even think about it. How could I have possibly predicted this outcome could happen? [Laughs.]”
Getting sued over samples is nothing new in hip-hop, but many fans are pointing to the recent “Blurred Lines” verdict in favor of Marvin Gaye’s estate for bringing renewed attention to the practice. If this is a sign of things to come, expect law offices to be very busy over the next few years.
http://watchloud.com/listen-to-the-madlib-song-bob-james-is-suing-over-sparkdala/

He's really flattered but it's an opportunity to make money:
Click to expand...


Some artists are finding that their compositions have been sampled because of the advancement of technology. There's a service where a composer can upload their songs and the software finds similar compositions just in case the work has been sampled.

Stones Throw has an extensive catalog where they created licensing agreements and even reissues of artist's works. So it will benefit them now if Madlib samples them because the ownership and agreements are all in-house with standard rates.
 
Really a quick search will bring up who owns at least some of the rights to the song and you can just hit them up. But until you start making any money I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only reason you'd get sued before making money is if you used someone's voice in an extremely offensive (for example racist) track. Then they could come at you for infringing on their moral rights.
 
..back in the day I was signed to a small label based out of London. I did an album with them and as we went to mastering (yes, a bit late) the owner asked me if there's any samples that I need to clear. I said there was one that I sampled from a very well known computer game that was copyrighted on one of the biggest game console companies. He said, ah don't worry about it, that'll be fine.

This was a while ago though and they were a small independent label however what with everyone suing everyone these days it's probably best to be safe and ask first.

According to a source, The Prodigy paid £3000 for a 4 second sample used in one of their early tracks...

Audioroom
 
Unless your beat receives commercial recognition, it is highly unlikely any discrepancies will arise. Besides, clearing samples isn't your responsibility. It is the sole responsibility of the artist who buys the sampled beat to clear the sample. You are only selling the parts you contributed to the composition (The drum beat, synths, etc.). Just make sure you disclose this information to the artist who is purchasing the beat. It could save them a headache down the road IF they did make it big with their music...
 
I think all the information is great, but don't you also have the same risk of being sued by playing something that sounds like an artist/band such as " Blurred Lines " by Pharell and Robin Thicke?
 
Gangsta727 said:
I think all the information is great, but don't you also have the same risk of being sued by playing something that sounds like an artist/band such as " Blurred Lines " by Pharell and Robin Thicke?
Click to expand...

IMO Williams, although not actually sampling Got To Give It Up did clearly plagiarise from it...
From an academic standpoint (which essentially is what that case was built on) he should've credited Gaye for it.
From an industry and copywriter PoV; in order to credit it he needed to seek permission from its owners (Gayes children) and pay for the privilege.
He knew this though as he signed a copywrite disclaimer with his label which made him responsible in the event of lawsuit.
He played the game. He lost.
But if Blurred Lines hadn't of been the hit that it was - would there have even been a lawsuit?
A track has to really blow up to make it cost effective enough to file a civil suit.
For a track to blow big needs serious support from the label and distributors who will be hiring extra staff (pluggers etc) specifically for that task.
If your label are giving you that much support - pay first - you'll pay less than if it goes to court.
If you're label isn't giving you that support (or you don't have a label) then as I said before... Don't worry about it. Nobody sues anyone if there's nothing to gain.
 
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Unless you're releasing something that you're going to make decent money off of, you're not going to get sued. The likelihood is extremely low. Just sell your beats if thats what you do, and let the artists clear them if they are at that level. Madlib is a fairly well-known producer who releases projects of his own which he actually makes money off of. Of course someone would sue him.
 
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