Perfect loop for equal slices?

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Geeksonique

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Ok so I've been chopping drums to use in my beats for a minute but I'm just starting to mess with melodic samples and I'm getting embarrassingly stuck with them.

Ive got this sample that I want to use, it's 4 bars of strings and I'm trying to slice it into 8ths. Here's what im doing in Logic:

Trim a perfect loop, set Logic to match the tempo using locators and then auto slicing it into 8ths.

Then I'll leave the tempo as it is (or time stretch the sample if I want to change the track bpm) and make my drum pattern. Then when I play the chops back they just won't be timed right. What am I doing wrong?

Is it just down to my original loop possibly being slightly too long/short? It needs to be perfect right? Any tips for making a perfect loop? I thought I was on point but clearly not.
 
I think you should be slicing shit by hand rather than trying to line shit up on a grid in order to make even chops but.......

The length of a real loop is determined by it's tempo, you can't just cut the length by ear it has to be precise, for that you need to use math, 240/BPM = length, (for example 240/95 BPM = 2.526 sec) you then use your ears to determine the start position while maintaining that length.

But before you can even start to cut the loop to the correct length you need to determine the samples tempo, most people let the computer do the dirty work but I prefer to use a stopwatch and calculator, you can use tap tempo but most people don't understand how shit works so they tap that shit over small durations and then they time stretch that shit and make it even worse. Timing from A to B over a long duration and using division is far more accurate.
 
What do you mean 'they just won't be timed right' ?

Are you using midi controller to trigger the chops? if so could be the latency isssue
 
hollandturbine said:
I think you should be slicing shit by hand rather than trying to line shit up on a grid in order to make even chops but.......

The length of a real loop is determined by it's tempo, you can't just cut the length by ear it has to be precise, for that you need to use math, 240/BPM = length, (for example 240/95 BPM = 2.526 sec) you then use your ears to determine the start position while maintaining that length.

But before you can even start to cut the loop to the correct length you need to determine the samples tempo, most people let the computer do the dirty work but I prefer to use a stopwatch and calculator, you can use tap tempo but most people don't understand how shit works so they tap that shit over small durations and then they time stretch that shit and make it even worse. Timing from A to B over a long duration and using division is far more accurate.
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thats a lot of math... i just use my ears
 
Yeah I'm using a Midi controller, I thought it might be latency but I've just tried quantizing the notes and it's still out.

Ok I get what you're saying about using auto-chop, I guess it could end up being 'computerised'

If I was chopping a sample I wanted to just completely switch up and 'play' back melodically then yeah I'd chop it by ear, just pull out the bits I want etc, but here I'm talking about 'equal' splits. Like on an MPC where you'd have a loop and you want to just split it over the 16 pads, surely that's where you'd use an auto chop?
 
well keep in mind that when you chopping a loop , the drummer will play with a swing so timing might be a little bit off but auto chop chops everything equally thus making slices sound off. Like jazz records have crazy swing sometimes so auto chop wont work in that situation

Normally I auto chop then manually move the chop points to make slices I want, and make sure it sounds nice
 
SaLCapone said:
thats a lot of math... i just use my ears
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While you can do a lot by ear there are occasions where you will need accuracy, like in order to make a perfect loop that can maintain synchronization without being sequenced and to avoid compound errors when time stretching.

I do shit the old school hardware way and even if I do use a stopwatch and calculator I am still using my ears, the real difference is I am not playing with a mouse until shit sounds right, if you did that shit on hardware you would be wearing out the dial all day long, I listen then position, in other words I know the exact position of my edit points before I even start entering numbers.

Imagine I have a one bar break beat in my old ass Akai S950 (no fancy shit like a wave editor and mouse) and I want to find out the length of that bar, I could use my stopwatch and time the bar and just use the readout as my loop points or I could reduce the playback speed to improve the accuracy of the stopwatch and then multiply the readout, once I have the readout say 2.526 I can calculate the tempo, 60/2.526=23.75x4=95 BMP I can then set up my sequencer to trigger the bar at a reduced speed and the I just tap away on my keyboard where I want to put slices, I then use the information from the MIDI event list to chop up my sample and it also gives me the ability to create a groove template.
 
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no drumer or band plays in perfect timing so if you chop it into 8ths, some of the chops will be off tempo which is why i recommend manually chopping
 
Just chop it on the down beat. Its a 4 bar loop so it should be in 16ths since there are 16 down beats in a 4 bar loop. Cats make it too complex sometimes.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, some really helpful comments.

I think my problem is actually finding the BPM, I've tried a few methods but counting the downbeat over 15 seconds and multiplying by 16 seems to give me good results (assuming the sample is in 4/4 of course). The other problem was the snare hit in the sample was really lazy, jazz style swing and along with my beat it just sounded off. I guess all this improves with experience.
 
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Geeksonique said:
Thanks for the replies guys, some really helpful comments.

I think my problem is actually finding the BPM, I've tried a few methods but counting the downbeat over 15 seconds and multiplying by 16 seems to give me good results (assuming the sample is in 4/4 of course). The other problem was the snare hit in the sample was really lazy, jazz style swing and along with my beat it just sounded off. I guess all this improves with experience.
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ill save you the time and tell you once again. even if you whant to chop 16th beat or every forth beat or whatever, MANUALLY CHOP
 
Geeksonique said:
Thanks for the replies guys, some really helpful comments.I think my problem is actually finding the BPM, I've tried a few methods but counting the downbeat over 15 seconds and multiplying by 16 seems to give me good results (assuming the sample is in 4/4 of course). The other problem was the snare hit in the sample was really lazy, jazz style swing and along with my beat it just sounded off. I guess all this improves with experience.
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That's why you A manually chop and B chop on the down beat. It sounds bad because your chop is bad.
 
lol @ the old guy who is mad that we have programs to make the dirty work easy vs his "old ass akai"

sike im kidding but old school heads always get mad at us younger people wanting everything to be so easy, and i can understand that. Technology is crazy. Sorry for getting off topic. I manually slice my samples. Auto-anything is genrally shit
 
alxgry said:
lol @ the old guy who is mad that we have programs to make the dirty work easy vs his "old ass akai"
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Even the old MP's had an auto slice thing though right? I'm sure the 2K XL can slice to zones like 8, 16 etc, that's where I got the idea from.
 
Geeksonique said:
Even the old MP's had an auto slice thing though right? I'm sure the 2K XL can slice to zones like 8, 16 etc, that's where I got the idea from.
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oh yeah im sure they did. i wouldnt know cause im a young wipper snapper who just uses FL haha
 
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