Chopping samples directly with midi-controller (MIDI-Map)

G

gamba66

New member
Hi guys,

as the title says I want to do the following on a midi controller. I use ableton but would be willing to change the DAW to achieve this. I DO NOT want to use keyboard or mouse for these steps. Before that okay when loading the sample or importing it.

My workflow would look like this

1. Import one big sample (mostly complete songs) on to pad1
2. choose first start point
3. copy complete sample onto next pad
4. choose start point for the sample

The mode of playback I prefer would be ADSR, the sample only plays back while I press the key or pad and stops when released. Oh and ofcourse pitching up and down

That seems so extremely simple, isn't it possible to midimap any sampling vst to do that (battery, kontakt etc.) so I could use hardware to complete all these steps

I also read about guille script for novation nocturne and ableton but Im not sure if it enables me to do this simple workflow

thank you
 
you can do that in ableton already, all you need to do is change the start and end times of each sample.
for example, you have the same sample duplicated in, lets say 8 slots of the drum rack. all you need to do is midi map the start and end times of each sample to a rotary control on the midi device. OR you could load the sample into simpler then indicate where the slices would be in the sample and play it within that.

the functionality and capability of your midi device really kinda depends on how much time you are willing to problem solve and create a solution with what you have. I'm 99% certain there is a way to do this and set up the mapping to do exactly what you want. And once you set it up the first time, you can save these devices and never have to set it up again. So you would only have to use the keyboard for initial setup, after that, youre good.

What kind of midi device(s) are you using? I think that will shed a little more light on the problem.

Midi mapping the controls of your midi device to certain tasks is as simple as selecting whichever function you wish to be controlled (in this case we would select start time, then for the next knob we would control end time) then pressing control+m then touching/sliding/turning the pad/knob/fader on the midi controller that you wish to control that function you have selected. Takes less than a minute once you've done it a few times. If you cannot be bothered to press control+m then I'm pretty certain there is a user device or chain somehwhere that a user has already created that can do what you are looking for, just gotta seek it out.

and im pretty sure ableton has a feature where, while the sample plays, you can tap the pads on midi controller in order to assign slices. ive never used that personally, but I remember seeing it as an option somewhere while i was working on a project.
 
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AudioPhorm said:
you can do that in ableton already, all you need to do is change the start and end times of each sample.
for example, you have the same sample duplicated in, lets say 8 slots of the drum rack. all you need to do is midi map the start and end times of each sample to a rotary control on the midi device. OR you could load the sample into simpler then indicate where the slices would be in the sample and play it within that.

the functionality and capability of your midi device really kinda depends on how much time you are willing to problem solve and create a solution with what you have. I'm 99% certain there is a way to do this and set up the mapping to do exactly what you want. And once you set it up the first time, you can save these devices and never have to set it up again. So you would only have to use the keyboard for initial setup, after that, youre good.

What kind of midi device(s) are you using? I think that will shed a little more light on the problem.

Midi mapping the controls of your midi device to certain tasks is as simple as selecting whichever function you wish to be controlled (in this case we would select start time, then for the next knob we would control end time) then pressing control+m then touching/sliding/turning the pad/knob/fader on the midi controller that you wish to control that function you have selected. Takes less than a minute once you've done it a few times. If you cannot be bothered to press control+m then I'm pretty certain there is a user device or chain somehwhere that a user has already created that can do what you are looking for, just gotta seek it out.

and im pretty sure ableton has a feature where, while the sample plays, you can tap the pads on midi controller in order to assign slices. ive never used that personally, but I remember seeing it as an option somewhere while i was working on a project.
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How do I map start and end points to a knob? You cant do it in simpler

This isnt possible afaik ! Only on Ableton Push

Otherwise your method would make sense

I use an alesis v-mini it has 4 knobs, 4 pads and 25 keys, its basic but it works

Also I wanted to duplicate the sample with the NEW startpoint I set and not start from the beginning each time
 
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before I had the Push2, i was using a korg nanokontrol to do it, using the method i stated above. but thinking back now, i cannot remember if i was using drum rack, sampler or simpler...but i WAS doing it...or else i would not have continued using ableton. chopping drums is one of my main time consumers, so being able to do this at least reasonably quickly was a concern. IME, needing the refreshed or new start point was never an issue if you can see the waveform, you know exactly where your at. But then, I come from an MPC background...im used to rolling and scrolling and editing via visual feedback.

if you want to duplicate the sample using the NEW startpoint, then you will simply duplicate the sample after you set each startpoint, and im not quite sure how you would accomplish that without keystrokes or using the mouse.

look around though at other user forums (ableton, Max4Live, etc.), im almost certain someone has created a utility or midi chain that does exactly what you are attempting to achieve. you cant have been the only person looking to do this. if you find it, it will only be a matter of setting up those initial midi mappings.
 
AudioPhorm said:
before I had the Push2, i was using a korg nanokontrol to do it, using the method i stated above. but thinking back now, i cannot remember if i was using drum rack, sampler or simpler...but i WAS doing it...or else i would not have continued using ableton. chopping drums is one of my main time consumers, so being able to do this at least reasonably quickly was a concern. IME, needing the refreshed or new start point was never an issue if you can see the waveform, you know exactly where your at. But then, I come from an MPC background...im used to rolling and scrolling and editing via visual feedback.

if you want to duplicate the sample using the NEW startpoint, then you will simply duplicate the sample after you set each startpoint, and im not quite sure how you would accomplish that without keystrokes or using the mouse.

look around though at other user forums (ableton, Max4Live, etc.), im almost certain someone has created a utility or midi chain that does exactly what you are attempting to achieve. you cant have been the only person looking to do this. if you find it, it will only be a matter of setting up those initial midi mappings.
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how did you midi map start and end points ?

its not possible in simpler, sampler or drum rack

im happy that you replied but please elaborate your method, start and end points isnt mappable anywhere in ableton.. maybe you used a plugin or something of that sort?

basically your saying somehow its possible and you did it in the past but without describing the most important part
 
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AudioPhorm said:
Midi mapping the controls of your midi device to certain tasks is as simple as selecting whichever function you wish to be controlled (in this case we would select start time, then for the next knob we would control end time) then pressing control+m then touching/sliding/turning the pad/knob/fader on the midi controller that you wish to control that function you have selected. Takes less than a minute once you've done it a few times.
Click to expand...

I explained exactly how to do it in my first response...and this would apply to anything else that is able to be midi mapped inside ableton.

it IS possible, if you are familiar at all with ableton, and how to use a midi controller with it.
I don't know the extent of your knowledge or expertise with the program, but your midi controller is not going to automatically be set up to control these things, and you will need to manually set it up. Do not fret, it is very easy.

if my explanation does not make sense, there are tutorials on youtube that can show you how to do this.
 
AudioPhorm said:
I explained exactly how to do it in my first response...and this would apply to anything else that is able to be midi mapped inside ableton.

it IS possible, if you are familiar at all with ableton, and how to use a midi controller with it.
I don't know the extent of your knowledge or expertise with the program, but your midi controller is not going to automatically be set up to control these things, and you will need to manually set it up. Do not fret, it is very easy.

if my explanation does not make sense, there are tutorials on youtube that can show you how to do this.
Click to expand...

I tried it bro it the start and end points are not midi mappable you can try it

I am familiar with ableton but im not saying Im an expert. BUT I have midi mapped my controller already (I know that ctrl + m is a shortcut for midimapping mode).. its just that the start and end points are not midi mappable! Everything else is

just google the "midi map start end point ableton" and you will see its not possible
 
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dammit, i swear i was doing it before with that korg nanokontrol. i apologize if i misled you but i totally remember using the rotary controllers to crop/truncate samples in ableton in one of those devices.

i guess i have to admit im wrong on this one...but how i was doing it then? is the question i ask myself. id have to load it up on my old laptop. its running an older version, i dunno if that would change anything. im thinking it was something i rigged through a combo of macro controls or something. im about to crash but im gonna check back and look at my old project files when i get the chance.
 
AudioPhorm said:
dammit, i swear i was doing it before with that korg nanokontrol. i apologize if i misled you but i totally remember using the rotary controllers to crop/truncate samples in ableton in one of those devices.

i guess i have to admit im wrong on this one...but how i was doing it then? is the question i ask myself. id have to load it up on my old laptop. its running an older version, i dunno if that would change anything. im thinking it was something i rigged through a combo of macro controls or something. im about to crash but im gonna check back and look at my old project files when i get the chance.
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no worries everyone makes mistakes sometimes

im happy that you are trying to help me :)

Maybe you will come up with the plugin or whatever you used to achieve that

my guess is they are keeping some of the functions like duplicate pad or setting start/endpoints exclusive to ableton push 1/2 to sell more
 
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hey, so I went back to check with my korg nanokontrol connected and it does allow me to assign the "start" and "length" values to knobs on the controller, inside Simpler. Now what was weird is that it would not allow me to control the "start" of the sample initially. So what I did was turn on the "warp" function inside Simpler, and all of a sudden it worked, even when I then turned off the warp function...I know, strange. So, with this setup you could load the same sample on several Simplers, set up each individual samples start/end time, then assign them into pads on the drum rack. I'm thinking after the initial setup, you could save some sort of preset that can work for you so you dont have to do it each time this way. It seems like the main problem was the warp function for some reason...

I'm running version 9.5 currently but need to update, I've just been lazy.

I'll check back.
 
AudioPhorm said:
How To Get Ableton's Drum Rack To Act Like An MPC | Ableton Life

I was thinking about it a bit more and knew there had to be some sort of write up on it, even though it isn't a mirror of my explanation. I feel that this, combined with what I said should put you in the right headspace to move forward with this idea (i hope).:cheers:
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Could you maybe make a screenshot or video of the Parameter you midi-mapped for start/end point ?

I really cant figure out WHERE I can midi-map start/end value and I have really tried

Thank you for bearing with me

Also with your workflow I would always have to start from the same start point each pad? Right?
 
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haha no prob, i'm bearing with you because i remember that when i figured this out, it was the reason i stuck with ableton.
i have the screenshots, just need to figure out how to post. hold on a sec, youll see what i did and i only fully remembered what i did just now. hopefully it helps.example1.jpg

I inverted the values of the length so that I can sort of "pinch" the section that I want to focus in on quickly using the one knob to traverse across the waveform and the other to make the focal point of the sample larger or smaller.
Once you go about this the hard way once, (how I explained about using several Simpler devices) I'm pretty sure you won't have to again aside from setting where you want each individual sample to begin/end.
 
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AudioPhorm said:
haha no prob, i'm bearing with you because i remember that when i figured this out, it was the reason i stuck with ableton.
i have the screenshots, just need to figure out how to post. hold on a sec, youll see what i did and i only fully remembered what i did just now. hopefully it helps.View attachment 45540
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it helps ! I will try it and report back

thanks so much man!
 
So basically, while the sample isn't cropped or truncated, it kinda doesnt matter because when it plays back on the keyboard or your pads, it will play as displayed on the Simpler.
 
gamba66 said:
Could you maybe make a screenshot or video of the Parameter you midi-mapped for start/end point ?

I really cant figure out WHERE I can midi-map start/end value and I have really tried

Thank you for bearing with me

Also with your workflow I would always have to start from the same start point each pad? Right?
Click to expand...

You would have to start from the same point unless you setup a preset that started from different segments throughout certain points. But I mean, every sample will be different so then starting from the same spot simply to set the next sample's trigger point is negligible (in my opinion, because you will be changing the start/end times with any type of sampler you use anyway) takes like 1 second once you get the hang of it. It would be just a matter of turning a knob, but if you set up your MIDI mapping how I did, then you will see how easy it is in practice VS words explaining it.

I get you might be looking for a different type of workflow with perhaps, less steps. This is just the way i used to do it for quite awhile before i got the push2 controller, which definitely speeds things up...but its not necessary to do what you are looking for.

I was trying to implement this technique to the "slice" option of the sample, but I couldnt get it to work. this option for sample processing was not available when I was using this method, but with some troubleshooting, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasnt a way to do it. You might want to explore the options of selecting the slice option on the Simpler, then right clicking the device and selecting "slice to drum rack". This will automatically cut the sample according to where the slice lines are in the sample (which you can alter the sensitivity--which will alter how many slices there are---or you can move the slice lines manually) and assign the slices across a drum rack device. You can then edit each sample individually, if desired. Sometimes I leave it to the program to do the rough edits, then go in manually in the drum rack to clean up clicks and pops, if needed.



I know there is an alternative way to do this and I wish someone else would chime in with their method.
 
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