Why should you even pan?

[Yuno]

That's right FP. I said it. What is the point of panning?

Think about it, sure there is the population who will listen to your song in front of two perfectly placed monitors or on headphones (even so the other ear might be shared by a friend)... But most people are listening in:

-cars, (and your not seated dead center)
-clubs (which play in mono)
-out of one headphone
-on the TV
-out of iPod speakers,
etc


...So if so many people are listening under these mono circumstances, why pan? Why even risk phase issues/lost instruments?

If its to "get an instrument out of the way of another"....... Don't they just end up colliding under mono circumstances?

Fill me in on panning FP, I just don't understand it.. mono compatibility is important.

Hopefully I don't get shut down too hard with a perfect answer about something I am missing haha

Cars aren't mono... at least the last two I've owned (a shit Taurus and a 335i)
Most clubs aren't mono. There's a reason we make dance music to sound really wide.
I know my TV isn't mono.

Just because these playback sources don't have speakers in ideal locations for stereo listening doesn't mean that they are "mono."

[Khan88]

Cars aren't mono... at least the last two I've owned (a shit Taurus and a 335i)
Most clubs aren't mono. There's a reason we make dance music to sound really wide.
I know my TV isn't mono.

Just because these playback sources don't have speakers in ideal locations for stereo listening doesn't mean that they are "mono."

The majority of sources from my threads lean towards club speakers being in mono.

[Spud388]

If even one person is going to be hearing it in stereo, why would you not do everything you can to make it the best sound experience possible for them?

[seveneleven247]

If it aint broke, don't fix it. Panning works, don't fix it. Plus a large amount of producers have vocalists singing over their work. You don't want the vocalist to be fighting the instruments, you want them sitting nicely between them.

[Yuno]

The majority of sources from my threads lean towards club speakers being in mono.

I just want to point out a major difference between width and panning. Whereas panned music might not sound as good on the dance floor as only half the room actually hears a panned instrument without too many reflections, wide sounds are heard through both speakers on a stereo system.

And like I said, there are some clubs that play in mono but there are still many more from my experience that play in stereo. In fact, if you have a lot of panned instruments, playing in mono shouldn't be a problem at all since all the stereo information is summed into a single mono channel. What should be more worrisome is the using sample delay stereo enhancers. Phase problems will occur on mono systems if you're not careful.

I guess the ultimate answer is if you buy a song and find out it sounds narrow and shallow on your hifi you'll be disappointed. Your aim as the mixer should be to make things sound great in stereo without any phase problems in mono; satisfy every type of listener.

[Khan88]

I just want to point out a major difference between width and panning. Whereas panned music might not sound as good on the dance floor as only half the room actually hears a panned instrument without too many reflections, wide sounds are heard through both speakers on a stereo system.

And like I said, there are some clubs that play in mono but there are still many more from my experience that play in stereo. In fact, if you have a lot of panned instruments, playing in mono shouldn't be a problem at all since all the stereo information is summed into a single mono channel. What should be more worrisome is the using sample delay stereo enhancers. Phase problems will occur on mono systems if you're not careful.

I guess the ultimate answer is if you buy a song and find out it sounds narrow and shallow on your hifi you'll be disappointed. Your aim as the mixer should be to make things sound great in stereo without any phase problems in mono; satisfy every type of listener.

Ahh nice, good post. I definitely will watch out for delays...So only stereo delays? (where the signal is delayed from Left/Right)

What do you mean by wide sounds and panning? By wide sound, is that done by panning just a little to one side so it is still heard through both?


Thanks for the other responses but just to clarify for everyone else I didn't mean to come across as anti pan. I just don't get the point if its only to separate masked instruments.

[Chartburst]

Panning different elements correctly to give them their own place in the mix does wonders for the overall sound and helps so much at mixdown.

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

The point of mixing is to give a product a universal sound that transfers well over multiple systems. So when mixing you should never say "most guys aren't gonna use it" you should say "let me make sure it's gonna sound just as good for guys using this as it does for guys using that' and consider every possibility of how a consumer will playback your mix.

You want the consumer to feel as if you've utilized every aspect of whatever device they're playing back from. So you don't discard all the headphone listeners, audiophiles, ect because you come to the conclusion "most guys won't care".

[tharealphaze]

this was a really stupid question its like your looking for an argument or something.

[Yuno]

Ahh nice, good post. I definitely will watch out for delays...So only stereo delays? (where the signal is delayed from Left/Right)

What do you mean by wide sounds and panning? By wide sound, is that done by panning just a little to one side so it is still heard through both?


Thanks for the other responses but just to clarify for everyone else I didn't mean to come across as anti pan. I just don't get the point if its only to separate masked instruments.

One way I like to think of mid/side is "same/difference." The mid information is the signal that is shared by both L and R channels; ie a mono signal. The "side" portion is a signal that contains two channels with information that is different in each channel. That's pretty much the simple answer. When you do mid/side processing, you generally don't have to worry too much about phase cancellation unless the original signal has phase problems.

It's important to not confuse "mid/side" processing with "stereo-izing" (it's usually another word for stereo delay or phase delay). Stereo-izing gives a feeling of having "side" by shifting the phase of an input's signal in either the L or R channel. Thus, if a mono signal, where both channels contain the same information, has a applied "stereo-izer" to it, the L and R become different simply because one of the channel's phase is shifted. Although the output signal is different on the L and R channels then, its actually only the same mono signal shifted a bit from it's original phase. Thus, when a stereo-ized track is summed into one mono signal, there can be various phase problems.
phase-cancellation.jpg
The top portion above shows a track where the phase may have been shifted 180 degrees to where the peak of each channel is around the trough of the other channel. Thus when summed into a mono signal, you can see they cancel out in the bottom portion where the red line indicates the summed information.

In short, panning doesn't hurt when played back on a mono system unless the panned instrument is somehow inherently problematic phase-wise with the mix (In which case panning isn't the problem). Neither is mid/side processing. The only problem you need to watch out for on mono systems is what I mentioned already a few times; stereo delays. Other than that, just make it all sound good on a stereo hifi and everyone will be happy.