When mixing, do you consider car EQ presets?

[CPhoenix]

So i'm pretty much done w/ my first personal single in a VERY long time. After working on other artists, I decided I needed to spend some time on myself as well.

I finished mixing and we love the track. Ever since I got good at mixing, I've been teaching my partner things about audio as I go. Well.... this is creating much more work for me lol.. because now he spot checks more than I do!!!!! He hears things that I didn't realize were there, and vice versa. This is usually a good thing... however I wonder if sometimes we start focusing way too much on minor things that we probably shouldn't care about.

The biggest example is listening to the song in the car, w/ a good strong Bose speaker system. (Acura TL '03 w/ whatever premium package it came with). We compare our mix to professional tracks. We know we're not going to be exactly on par w/ big name studio projects, but we try to be in the same ballpark, so that if you're jumping from their song to ours you won't notice an extreme difference in quality & presentation.

This finally leads me to my question: We noticed this particular mix sits well with other songs when the car system is at it's normal initial EQ. However.... he listens to a lot of his music on using either the "Rock" or "Jazz" settings. (All it really is, is just a freakin EQ). We noticed that on those settings, the mix still sounds great, however when compared to our benchmark songs... our mix starts to distort around 35db, whereas the benchmark song can go to about 46db. So.... essentially, you can turn their song up louder before the whole thing starts to distort into a disastrous mess lol. So, he's pleading his case to me to nudge the bass down into the mix a little bit.. to give it more room to pump up in the car on those settings.

The perfectionist side of me wants to get it absolutely perfect. However, the realistic side of me feels this is just going a bit too far and we need to let it ride. I mean, we're already in a poor mixing environment... so we should be happy w/ how good we've got the mix sounding so far. Also, i'm worried about losing the whole groove of the track, just because of a stupid EQ on someone's car stereo. The song is definitely 100% bass kick driven.

What would you do in my shoes? Do you normally take this stuff into account when you mix? Do you go this deep in your mixes? Is this nitpicking?

---------- Post added at 04:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 AM ----------

Here's a copy of the song... just so you know what i'm talking about

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x79a4gctxc...orkItOut.mp3?m


Let me know if that link doesn't work.

[CoMpLeXx]

NO cos car eq's are shit lol.

Mix to what sounds good on your monitors, they are designed to sound good on all systems including cars, and if it sounds shit on a car eq preset just change the preset not the mix.

[dzara]

Sounds like this needs to be remixed and mastered professionaly

[CPhoenix]

^No budget for that unfortunately.

Besides that.. it's more fun for us working inhouse. We'll eventually have better acoustic environment & monitoring system to complement the acquired skillset.

But in the meantime.... I'm wondering if you worry about small stuff like this? Do you get that detailed w/ your mixes, or do you let minimum things ride.. since nothing can be truly perfect?

The difference we're hearing is a minor one.... but do you feel minor adjustments like this really make major differences? It sounds fine in the studio and under normal car stereo settings.

[dzara]

It is important that the mix translates well on any system whether its in a car,in a retail store, out of a laptop. I recommend using a high resolution spectrum analyzer to look for peaks in the low-end if you cant hear it. A good way to make sure that your mix will translate well is by making sure your mid-range is not suffering. I have an auratone which I monitor with at times which lets me monitor the mid-range and is a good way to determine how my mix will translate

[CPhoenix]

Nice... I never thought of using a spectrum analyzer. Thanks for the tip!

[Salem Beats]

So i'm pretty much done w/ my first personal single in a VERY long time. After working on other artists, I decided I needed to spend some time on myself as well.

I finished mixing and we love the track. Ever since I got good at mixing, I've been teaching my partner things about audio as I go. Well.... this is creating much more work for me lol.. because now he spot checks more than I do!!!!! He hears things that I didn't realize were there, and vice versa. This is usually a good thing... however I wonder if sometimes we start focusing way too much on minor things that we probably shouldn't care about.

The biggest example is listening to the song in the car, w/ a good strong Bose speaker system. (Acura TL '03 w/ whatever premium package it came with). We compare our mix to professional tracks. We know we're not going to be exactly on par w/ big name studio projects, but we try to be in the same ballpark, so that if you're jumping from their song to ours you won't notice an extreme difference in quality & presentation.

This finally leads me to my question: We noticed this particular mix sits well with other songs when the car system is at it's normal initial EQ. However.... he listens to a lot of his music on using either the "Rock" or "Jazz" settings. (All it really is, is just a freakin EQ). We noticed that on those settings, the mix still sounds great, however when compared to our benchmark songs... our mix starts to distort around 35db, whereas the benchmark song can go to about 46db. So.... essentially, you can turn their song up louder before the whole thing starts to distort into a disastrous mess lol. So, he's pleading his case to me to nudge the bass down into the mix a little bit.. to give it more room to pump up in the car on those settings.

The perfectionist side of me wants to get it absolutely perfect. However, the realistic side of me feels this is just going a bit too far and we need to let it ride. I mean, we're already in a poor mixing environment... so we should be happy w/ how good we've got the mix sounding so far. Also, i'm worried about losing the whole groove of the track, just because of a stupid EQ on someone's car stereo. The song is definitely 100% bass kick driven.

What would you do in my shoes? Do you normally take this stuff into account when you mix? Do you go this deep in your mixes? Is this nitpicking?

---------- Post added at 04:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 AM ----------

Here's a copy of the song... just so you know what i'm talking about

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x79a4gctxc...orkItOut.mp3?m


Let me know if that link doesn't work.

It's important to have powerful bass... but at what frequency? Without listening to the song (just listening to the description of your problem), I would venture to guess that you could stand to try shifting your bass balance around a bit. If it's real boomy at 40-60Hz or whatever, try subtracting some of that for a little more "punchy" 70-100Hz. And vice versa; If it's whacking you it the face with no weight, try shifting it to be a little boomier.

Really though, it could be a number of things.

Perhaps in your quest to match professional levels, you've driven your RMS volume too high and the speaker system can't cope. You could try allowing for some more dynamic range.

Most mastering engineers suggest brickwall limiting to at least -0.2dbFS or lower because many consumer-level DACs start to handle peak interpolation improperly (distort when they don't need to) when the levels hover around 0dbFS.

Rock presets usually incorporate the "disco smile":

PulseAudio-Equalizer+for+Ubuntu.png

If you've already incorporated this "disco smile" into the way you've EQ'd your song (many people do!) it might turn out to be just too much boost in the dominant frequencies.

Jazz presets seem to be just like Rock presets, with less changes to the lower mids. Think of it as a cockeyed half-disco-smile:

140243-itunes-equalizer-386_original.jpg

-Ki
Salem Beats

[xXx_Dugan_Fire_xXx]

NO cos car eq's are shit lol.
Mix to what sounds good on your monitors, they are designed to sound good on all systems including cars, and if it sounds shit on a car eq preset just change the preset not the mix.

Incorrect sir. While the monitors should present a nuetral response, the room acoustics play a much larger roll.

Comparing mixes on a car system is great. Especially when you take the time to dive deeper like the op has. It reveals a lot about your mixes. In this case, the low end might be eating up that little extra headroom that he might need to get it to perceivably sound just as loud as a mastered track.

Like its been mentioned by your partner, attentuate the lows and you can also try setting up a high pass filter and cutting everything below 30hz. You could also turn everything down few db then hit it a little harder with a comp/limiter. A spectrum analyzer would definitely help to a degree but i wouldn't soley rely on that. Also try comparing your mixes on other mediums as well, ipod, home theater system, computer speakers, etc.

Using one reference doesnt always give you the best perspective on how your mix will translate. Definitely use other sources.

[CPhoenix]

^Thanks.... i definitely appreciate the words of wisdom.

My intentions aren't really to seek advice on what I can do to fix the bass issue.... though the advice is great and I do appreciate it lol b/c it reinforces my thoughts on how I mix, and a few things were mentioned that I hadn't thought of... but the main thing i'm looking for insight on is where do you personally draw the line for your mix.

I have a good idea of what to do to fix this issue, if I wanted to... but i'm contemplating not doing it, moreso out of sheer principle than anything lol. B/c i could find a billion other reasons to keep coming back to, ie.. what if my XYZ synth doesn't hit as hard in my song as a benchmark song, maybe my hi-hat is panned too wide on a home threatre system, but sounds fine in headphones... etc etc.

My real question is this: Would you really CARE if your song's mix started distorting at 35db on a car's system's "Rock" preset, whereas a bigname benchmark song didn't distort until 45db? My partner cares.... I'm leaning towards it being nitpicking lol. Keep in mind, it sounds just fine on regular systems with no EQ presets. But the "Rock" preset exposes the "problem" he's bringing up... and i'm leaning towards not calling it a "problem" and just calling it the nature of the beast.

I really was looking for people's thoughts/insight/experiences on that portion of the question. I probably gave too much info in my original post lol.. and i think the question's getting lost in the sauce.

[Salem Beats]

[...] My real question is this: Would you really CARE if your song's mix started distorting at 35db on a car's system's "Rock" preset, whereas a bigname benchmark song didn't distort until 45db? My partner cares.... I'm leaning towards it being nitpicking lol. Keep in mind, it sounds just fine on regular systems with no EQ presets. But the "Rock" preset exposes the "problem" he's bringing up... and i'm leaning towards not calling it a "problem" and just calling it the nature of the beast. [...]

Many people have some sort of EQ preset set up in their sound system that they either don't know about or didn't remember turning on. Of these, the "Rock" preset is a fairly popular one to have set up.

It's kinda pointless to compare your song to only one reference, however. Gather more info. Do most other reference songs distort at the same level as the one you're using now?

All things considered, 35dB is a very quiet level to be distorting at (Noise Comparisons)

-Ki
Salem Beats