Saturation/Distortion -> Volume?

Ferdows

New member
Hi Guys,

I think this is kinda advanced question:

When you add distortion or saturation and you keep the volume the same. It still seems louder if you listen, but apparently it isn't louder.

So I was wondering how this works. Cause I guess it will affect your mix?

For example. If you add saturation to a clap, it gets so much more 'louder' but the db is still the same.

Hope someone can explain this, so I can keep this in mind when I'm mixing.

Thanks in advance.
 
Perceptually it is louder as there is frequency content at a higher pitch - most distortion works by "exciting" 2nd and higher harmonics of the basic pitch material.

Our sensitivity to the intensity of low frequency vs mid frequency vs high frequency sound can be understood by viewing the equal iso-phon curves

640px-Lindos4.svg.png


Increases in intensity around 2kHz and 4kHz also give the sound presence, making it seem closer/louder (perceptually the closer we are to a sound the louder it seems to be; conversely the further away we get from a sound the quieter it seems to be: the frequency range that affects our perception of proximity to a sound is 2kHz-4kHz, as mentioned in the text before this)

Once we saturate a signal the spectral profile is altered so that we hear more upper mids and high frequency content thus increasing our perception of the loudness of that signal
 
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Oke thanks you bandcoach.

But what does the graph show? What is on the x-axis and on the y-axis?

So when you 'excite' a sound it is louder you say, even though it isn't showing on the volume meter? Or did I mis understood you?
 
y axis is intensity of sounds where 0db is the threshold of hearing and 130db is the threshold of pain

x-axis is frequency as a logarithmic scale

each line show the relative intensity for a sound to perceived as having the same intensity as a 1khz tone at a specific intensity

the blue lines are the results of the first experiments in 1933, the red lines are the more recent results done with better equipment

how to read the graph (red line)
for a sound to be perceived to having the same intensity as a 1kHz tone at 40dbspl it needs to be produced with an intensity of

freqintenisty (dbspl)
20Hz101dbspl
40Hz83dbspl
80Hz66dbspl
100Hz62dbspl
200Hz50dbspl
400Hz43dbspl
800Hz40dbspl
1kHz40dbspl
2kHz40dbspl
4kHz36dbspl
8kHz52dbspl
10kHz55dbspl
ca. 14kHz52dbspl
 
Oke, thats clear, thanks. Higher frequency till 4k we hear better, so it needs less volume, to be on the same level for human hears then lower frequencys.
 
More than this, distortion do also re-shape the dynamic shape in a sound, resulting in a dynamic shape that is percieved louder (often because the sustained part of the sound is boosted, but this may vary).
 
This is why individuals usually add saturation to say a sub bass so that it can be more audible on small speakers. All that's happening is upper harmonics are being added
 
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I kinda think that saturation add a ceiling while introduce harmonics to the sound, in other words, introduce a limit (like a limiter) ceiling, while introduce harmonics. Can someone say if that is right? I don't have actual knowledge about it, this is just my perception on how it works. This is mainly because when you introduce some saturation plugins you will realize that the peaks are gone on the db meter, like if everything was being smashed. (I know vintage warmer has a limiter built in and he works that way).
 
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I kinda think that saturation add a ceiling while introduce harmonics to the sound, in other words, introduce a limit (like a limiter) ceiling, while introduce harmonics. Can someone say if that is right? I don't have actual knowledge about it, this is just my perception on how it works. This is mainly because when you introduce some saturation plugins you will realize that the peaks are gone on the db meter, like if everything was being smashed. (I know vintage warmer has a limiter built in and he works that way).

If you smash the drive, but then it's not that much of a saturation anymore, but more like a classic distortion/overdrive plugin.
I know what you refer to, but then you pretty much need to destroy the sound with distortion (at least to my experience).
 
I kinda think that saturation add a ceiling while introduce harmonics to the sound, in other words, introduce a limit (like a limiter) ceiling, while introduce harmonics. Can someone say if that is right? I don't have actual knowledge about it, this is just my perception on how it works. This is mainly because when you introduce some saturation plugins you will realize that the peaks are gone on the db meter, like if everything was being smashed. (I know vintage warmer has a limiter built in and he works that way).

saturation is a waveshaper type plugin that adds some upper harmonic distortion whilst limiting without clipping the maximum amplitude the wave can take on - there is no other shaping going on, i.e. there is no transformation of transients or sustain on the signal, simply adding harmonic distortion and limiting the maximum amplitude
 
I kinda think that saturation add a ceiling while introduce harmonics to the sound, in other words, introduce a limit (like a limiter) ceiling, while introduce harmonics. Can someone say if that is right? I don't have actual knowledge about it, this is just my perception on how it works. This is mainly because when you introduce some saturation plugins you will realize that the peaks are gone on the db meter, like if everything was being smashed. (I know vintage warmer has a limiter built in and he works that way).

To my knowledge, saturation comes about from pushing audio beyond a certain limit. (Which causes a very mild form of a breakdown in playback often referred to as distortion).

I'm guessing that you would have to really push your signal incredibly hard to flatten a waveform using a saturation plugin.

(I actually would appreciate a detailed explanation between the specific differences between overdrive, saturation, and straight distortion).

*Ah, bc beat me to the punch. Don't mean to repeat :D*
 
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Distortion is actually a type of compression. compression makes things seem louder.

really, here I was thinking that it was a degradation/alteration of harmonic or non-harmonic parts of the signal which gives an increase of perceived upper frequency intensity (the distorted part of the spectrum that is audible will be made up of the original signal and even and odd harmonics of that signal) - aural exciters work on the principle of added phase inverted octave harmonic distortion to a signal at specific amplitudes - adding sparkle to an otherwise dead sound

whereas compression is a lowering of the amplitude above a given threshold (with possible make-up gain added back in if the signal is low enough overall to warrant it)

can you give me a credible reference other than wikipedia that explains how distortion is a form of compression?

I would accept the statement that saturation is a form of compression, as tape saturation was also known as tape based compression back in the day.....
 
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I would like to know how saturation works as well. Any references on getting a better understanding. I work with fl studio.
 
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