How do I get my 808 to sit inside my mix as opposed to on top?

Pianoman281

New member
The main thing that's bothering me is how my low end isnt sitting well in my mix. It sounds like it's sitting on top instead of inside my mix. Is it a volume issue or a mix issue?
Here is an example:

and here is an example of how I want my low end to sit:
 
Most likely volume and EQ issues.

It can be tough dialing it in using smaller book shelf speakers that don't go down very low in the first place.

The easiest way to mix an 808, sine or sub bass is to have full range speakers in a decent room and the experience of doing it, otherwise you're left to giving it your best shot and double checking on multiple systems and phones and then re-adjusting with that info. gl
 
I have decent monitors. I also have a good car system. I think im doing something wrong eq wise that's making my bass sit on top of my mix. I just dont know how to fix it
 
The big thing with 808's and really working with any subbass in general is really about:

1) Making sure it sounds exactly the way you want it to primarily. Dial in any distortion that you want. If you are creating the 808 from scratch, decide what waveform you will be using. (Sine with a little bend? A little more on the triangle side with a little distortion?) Get it sounding the way you want.

2) Visually check the EQ and see where it is primarily hitting. It most likely will be primarily under or around 100 hz. (If you have distortion on the sound or other effects, you may want to EQ out some of the boxyness that may come with it around the 200-300 hz. Depending on the type of snare you're using, taking out a little here, only if needed, will allow the snare to smack heavier as well.)

3) The biggest one: Now make sure all OTHER elements are EQed so they are not fighting AT ALL with the subbass. Get rid of those lows on every other element. The only exception will be how you have the sub and the kick drum play together, but if this is 808s, the bass and kick "fire" together so it doesn't matter. You can get rid of the subs on the kick as well.

If the only real sub element in your track is the 808s, it will really have a strong impact. Then it's really all about the volume.

One more tip:

When it comes to compression, if your 808 is JUST a sine wave, there is really no use for compression. It is just one formant. There's nothing really to compress. However, if there's distortion or other effects, you may want to do a little compression to tighten it all together. It depends on how "complex" your sub is.

Also, as a last tip, if you're not making your 808 from scratch, it may simply be the sample you're using. Try a different one. It may just fit better.

Good luck!
 
have you tried to layer your 808 with a solid kick? also you can eq the 808 to be more solid so it can sit well. that consist of boosting and cutting between the LF AND LMF range. now when it comes to other sounds in your production those have to be mixed as well!
 
What I'm hearing as a more "cohesive" sound from your second example
seems as though it's achieved simply through multi-band limiting on the master channel.

As soon as you notice that you're using words like "detatched", or "sitting on top of",
your first reaction should be to listen critically and consider your track's use of reverb and compression.

Attached is a quick example of the direction I'd take to bring your track more in line with what you seem to want.

-Ki
Salem Beats
 

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What I'm hearing as a more "cohesive" sound from your second example
seems as though it's achieved simply through multi-band limiting on the master channel.

As soon as you notice that you're using words like "detatched", or "sitting on top of",
your first reaction should be to listen critically and consider your track's use of reverb and compression.

Attached is a quick example of the direction I'd take to bring your track more in line with what you seem to want.

-Ki
Salem Beats

That's really good advice, but wouldn't this be more of a levels issue if we aren't dealing with live recordings?? Or is limiting the low end doing something more complicated than adjusting the levels of bass instruments.

I understand compression/limiting are tone shaping tools, but how does it apply to cohesiveness in hip hop when you could just turn an 808 down?
 
That's really good advice, but wouldn't this be more of a levels issue if we aren't dealing with live recordings?? Or is limiting the low end doing something more complicated than adjusting the levels of bass instruments.

I understand compression/limiting are tone shaping tools, but how does it apply to cohesiveness in hip hop when you could just turn an 808 down?

It's natural, but sometimes ill-advised, to start with the area where you identified the problem and attempt to make adjustments there.
It can be dangerous to simply assume that a problem is in fact what it appeared to be at first, or that it is actually what someone described it to you as.
Asking a question like "What is wrong with my bass here?" is often a logical fallacy called "Begging the Question".

The REAL "issue" to me (if you could call it one -- I didn't feel that the first example sounded "bad"),
is that the volume relationship between the bass and other frequencies isn't consistent enough.
Most of the work was careful multi-band compression to sculpt the relationships between the instruments, and then some limiting to "seal the deal".
More work was done on midrange and upper frequencies than the low end.

When I hear or imagine the words "detatched" or "unglued",
it kicks off a work pattern in my head to start looking for problems with space and consistency.

You see, I'm not merely "limiting the low end",
as you would say,
because I'm defining the problem in a manner aside from the way that it was first brought to my attention.

When you get to a higher level of mixing and mastering, you need to refine and redefine your conscious thoughts about your impressions.
For example, a mixer might say to himself about a vocal stem, "this vocal is too harsh", and simply use an EQ to turn down the upper frequencies.
But,
upon further reflection,
is it really too harsh?
When?
Always?
Maybe it only gets too harsh when the vocalist utters an "S", or "T",
or when the timbre of his voice changes as he backs away from the microphone and starts screaming.
In those situations, the approach would be different (you'd use a de-esser or multiband compressor) in response to a problem defined differently.

A photo example of two different perspectives on the exact content (rotate the picture to see either an old lady or a young woman):
stock-vector-optical-illusion-young-beautiful-princess-or-old-ugly-woman-vector-illustration-67150864.jpg


Your tools for refinement are:
- What
- How
- When
- Where
- Why

Ask yourself a few questions about your problem to refine it and gain some perspective.
Afterwards, come up with at least three (3) possible ways to go about dealing with the problem,
and choose whichever one of those you like the most. (With only solution, you have no options. With two possible solutions, you have a dilemma. With at least three, you have a meaningful choice to make.)

-Ki
Salem Beats
 
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I meant it more as a general the low end. I'm asking about the difference between compressing two signals or just bringing their perceived volumes closer with faders. The only time I've done this is with a mix bus compressor because they say it allows you to not juggle the faders after you have them initially set. That makes sense to me.

I'm not posing this as a challenge. I'm legitimately asking about compressing multiple sound sources.

Also, when you say "Most of the work was careful multi-band compression to sculpt the relationships between the instruments. More work was done on midrange and upper frequencies than the low end."
Do you mean in your example? Or in his example of what he wants the song to sound like?
 
when you say "Most of the work was careful multi-band compression to sculpt the relationships between the instruments. More work was done on midrange and upper frequencies than the low end."
Do you mean in your example? Or in his example of what he wants the song to sound like?

Unfortunately, I can't say what was done on the second example (his own example of how he'd like his bass to sit), because I wasn't there.

I can only hope that the example I gave took his music and steered it towards sounding more like his reference track,
with a little bit of explanation of the thought processes behind my adjustments.

-Ki
Salem Beats
 
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I mono my drums. Sidechain kick and the bass. that's really about it. just make sure all your other instruments aren't clogging the low end. You can add Saturation to your 808s to spice it up a bit. If you want it to sound fatter, I usually parallel compress it and that can work with anything snare, kick, 808, just use your ear.
 
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