Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: do filters differ from one another?

  1. #1
    dmajor100's Avatar
    dmajor100 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Corpus Christi (Éta
    Posts
    963

    do filters differ from one another?

    Sign in to disable this ad
    Im not experienced yet but ive read and hearf about of filters wither it be pro tools,waves,analog,any plug in can do more than give u low pass or high pass but some can change the tone. Im at audio school and a intern that told me to use a different eq plug in cause he said it sounded way better than pro tools and i was freaked out a bit cause my thinking was like” this is digital not analog so how can it be different”. Also over heard a chief enginner say to another pro that good filter are hard to find so im assuming theres truth to this. Mainly bringing this up cause im thinking of getting a old Akai S950 to sample drums and use the filters in areas they need. So any real techy enginneers with real answers that would like to shed some light on this?

  2. #2
    sleepy is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    15,511
    I don't know that I'd turn to an old sampler for decent filters. Not that it can't give you good results, but the digital to analog conversion and analog to digital conversion is likely to introduce noise and lessen your quality unless you're using decent converters.

    I think the bigger question is, what do you want a filter to do, that you can't do with a filter that you have now?

    As far as them being different. As with traditional filters, some have steep curves, some smoother. Some are selectable between 12db/24db. Many eq's can be used like filters. Filters are easier to grasp due to their simple knobs user interface and the resonance can really affect the sound by making a certain frequency more prominent, depending on the cutoff. I don't use filters that much when mixing, at least not dedicated filters. I use an EQ as a filter, however.

    Someone won't be able to tell what filter or eq you used unless you tell them. So I don't think you can just say pro tools filters are not as good as others. Not that it can't be true, because there is a market for plugins for a reason, but it's like someone telling you to use a better hammer because you nailed something crooked.

    I just realized. If you're just talking about drums. It won't hurt to try it. Knock yourself out with the Akai unit. Would make for a good learning experience, if anything. Even better if you can get a unit for very cheap.

  3. #3
    bandcoach's Avatar
    bandcoach is offline Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    15,135
    Filters in general come in five types:

    • Low pass/High cut
    • High pass/Low cut
    • Bandpass ~ frequency pass band limited by a high pass filter that feeds a low pass filter or vice versa
    • Bandcut/Notch
    • All pass ~ causes a known shift in phase, and is used a corrective filter in broadcast and speaker crossover systems amongst other things.


    In addition to these you can get digital filters that emulate electronic implementations, such as the Moog filter with it's compensating resonance control.

    From a pure technical standpoint an eq section is a filter with boost and cut. Both Active (amplifier in each section) and Passive eq (eq without amplification built in) are constructed by paralleling high and low pass filters with separate corner frequencies. If you have more than treble/High and Bass/Low you are also using cascaded high and low pass filters to create each band of mid-range eq run in parallel with the other bands.

    All filters have Real poles - points in their response where the filter is maximal - and some have real Zeroes as well - points in their response where the filter is minimal. Most filters also have Complex Zeroes, i.e. imaginary number plane - these are inaudible and have no affect on the quality or response of the filter.

    The number of poles and zeroes determines the slope of the filter how sharply it rolls off at the cutoff frequency and beyond. Most filters we see are implemented as 2-pole filters, with a cut-off slope of 12dB per octave or kHz (design considerations determine which). A 4-pole filter will have a cut-off slope of 24dB per octave/kHz; an 8-pole filter will have a cut-off slope of 48dB per octave/kHz and so on.

    Choosing a filter is an art in itself, despite all of the science and mathematics behind the construction of them. Knowing when to use which type is half the battle in treating any track.
    BC: I've been making music since Before Computers were common in music
    Abnormal thoughts and insights available here
    Tutorials and other ideas available here
    My SoundCloud

  4. #4
    dmajor100's Avatar
    dmajor100 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Corpus Christi (Éta
    Posts
    963
    Wow pretty deep stuff but still not sure what the real answer is.

  5. #5
    krushing's Avatar
    krushing is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    helsinki, finland
    Posts
    17,794
    The short answer is that "yes, they sound different".

  6. #6
    dmajor100's Avatar
    dmajor100 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Corpus Christi (Éta
    Posts
    963
    Mmmmmm okay guess ill see if its that noticeable and likeable

  7. #7
    Morning_Star's Avatar
    Morning_Star is offline ProTools + Reason user
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    ATL, the dirty
    Posts
    5,735
    There is nothing wrong with the ProTools stock plugs. Ever since version III of the stock plugs came out they are very good. And there are the AIR plugins that come with it also now. Very decent. If you really want an amazing eq though check out Massenburg, Sonnox, or Aplusoft Apqualizr if you have the VST to RTAS adapter.
    Macbook Pro i7, Digi 002R, JBL LSR4328, CL7602 mic pre, SM7b, GT66, ProTools 10, Reason 5.

  8. #8
    WeissSound is offline Engineer
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,011
    You know, I wrote a long, exceedingly complex post, delving into areas that I'm not formidably knowledgeable... but I'm just going to say this instead:

    Yes, filters sound different, so listen carefully.

  9. #9
    laurend's Avatar
    laurend is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    France
    Posts
    828
    There are two great families of digital filters. Infinite Impulse Response (IIR) ones have almost the same behavior than their analog conterparts. The other familly is the Finite Impulse Response (FIR) which only exists in the digital domain because it's based on delays.
    IIR changes the magnitude of the signal, but also the phase relation between frequencies. FIR changes the magnitude without affecting the phase.
    All manufacturers use these two basic designs. But depending of their exact implementation, the results can vary in a very very subtle manner.
    Last edited by laurend; 03-09-2012 at 06:57 AM.
    On line Mastering - from €5 - 7/24 - 1 Hour turnaround - Free test -Try now
    MaximalSound.com

  10. #10
    jrace is offline Mastering Engineer
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    81
    Yes, filters differ from one another. Good examples already given in this thread. But long and short of it, have a listen to the different ones and decide what works best for you.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Special 93% Offer

Got beats? Samples? Mixing and mastering services? Get a head start with this 93% OFF special offer!