CONVERTERS & Virtual Instruments - Do converters make a difference in sound quality?

The Control 2802 is way over priced for what it does. At one point they were giving out Saffire LQ56's with it for free.

With Logic or Studio One you will be better served mixing in the box as opposed to trying to use the DM4800 as a summing mixer.

**I was justing looking online, didn't notice there was a price drop on the DM4800. $3500 is a nice price.
 
P. Casso said:
The Control 2802 is way over priced for what it does. At one point they were giving out Saffire LQ56's with it for free.

With Logic or Studio One you will be better served mixing in the box as opposed to trying to use the DM4800 as a summing mixer.

**I was justing looking online, didn't notice there was a price drop on the DM4800. $3500 is a nice price.
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In this world of overpriced gear (CDJs, DJM, Iphones, etc) It's a refreshing change.
 
one question are you recording a band or just one vocal at a time because you can get some good black lion audio gear for the 2000 you would spend on a symphony you can get some ad converter and da converters and increase your sound quality pass an apogee symphony for about the same price
 
chicitybeats said:
one question are you recording a band or just one vocal at a time because you can get some good black lion audio gear for the 2000 you would spend on a symphony you can get some ad converter and da converters and increase your sound quality pass an apogee symphony for about the same price
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At the moment, I'm doing mostly "one shots". Are you saying that the BLA stuff is even better then Apogee Symphony? That's a bold statement! I did go to the website and saw the two Sparrow 2 ch converters they had. But, that would come out more than even the Apogee, If I got them! If the sparrow is better, how do they compare with Burl (which I thought was the best)?
 
^All i know from that comment is... I was speaking with an army guy who was sitting on a bunch of money and had nothing to do with it....... so he got envolved in audio recording lol. He already had an Apogee Big Ben for his clock. (Just purchasing a designated clock IN GENERAL really requires some serious cash lol... b/c it assumes you have some heavy duty equipment linked to it... unless ur just an idiot).

Anyway... he loved his Big Ben. Something made him great a BLA Sparrow... I forgot if it was the White or the Red. Anyway..... he tossed his Big Ben after using the clock on the Sparrow. He said it was just that damn good... he didn't need the Big Ben anymore.


Now I know i'm speaking about clocks... but also after listening to Obi's shootout of the Auteur w/ other proeamps of higher value... I don't question BLA's audio quality that much anymore lol. Big name equipment like Neve also started as a smaller company first.... and now evryone wants a Neve. I think BLA will be the same 20-30 years down the line.
 
CPhoenix said:
^All i know from that comment is... I was speaking with an army guy who was sitting on a bunch of money and had nothing to do with it....... so he got envolved in audio recording lol. He already had an Apogee Big Ben for his clock. (Just purchasing a designated clock IN GENERAL really requires some serious cash lol... b/c it assumes you have some heavy duty equipment linked to it... unless ur just an idiot).

Anyway... he loved his Big Ben. Something made him great a BLA Sparrow... I forgot if it was the White or the Red. Anyway..... he tossed his Big Ben after using the clock on the Sparrow. He said it was just that damn good... he didn't need the Big Ben anymore.


Now I know i'm speaking about clocks... but also after listening to Obi's shootout of the Auteur w/ other proeamps of higher value... I don't question BLA's audio quality that much anymore lol. Big name equipment like Neve also started as a smaller company first.... and now evryone wants a Neve. I think BLA will be the same 20-30 years down the line.
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A Point very well made. I was thinking about some BLA preamps to go along with the DM4800.
 
Virtual instruments sound better with conversion when recorded in real time. If they're straight bounced to disk then they're unaffected. But if you feed the audio signal from those virtual instruments into your converter to a mixer to outboard gear, and then back into the converters, then record in the DAW, the virtual instrument's audio signal will sound better. Depending on the converters. I like the Lynx Aurora converters.
 
Ok, Let's say you run your plugins through a digital mixer and you assign plugins to the input of this mixer. The signal is then processed inside the mixer and then sent back to the daw, through the firewire. The plugins, are they hitting the digital mixer's converter?
 
^probably depends on the design of the mixer.... whether it's really entering the analog stage at that point, or if it's digitally routing it. If it remains digital... then its not going thru the converters. I'd try to see if the manual picks up on this, check the routing section.
 
I just finished playing around with the mixer last night. I almost want to say it sounds better than the Ensemble I had, but maybe that's just my mind talking. I'll know after I mix a beat on it and compare it with one of my Ensemble mixes.
 
SmooveMode said:
Ok, Let's say you run your plugins through a digital mixer and you assign plugins to the input of this mixer. The signal is then processed inside the mixer and then sent back to the daw, through the firewire.
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I've never seen a hardware digital mixer doing so. Plug-ins run inside plug-in host applications, i.e. on your computer.

What's the point of using a digital hardware mixer in 2013 anyway? Show me one digital hardware mixer that wasn't out of date and virtually worthless 2 years after its appearance! Get a powerful computer and buy control surfaces to taste! Digital hardware mixers are a stupid concept and a waste of time and money. The world has zero need for a super short-living "tool" that offers solutions for issues that doesn't exist. They overcomplicate digital workflows like crazy, increases the potential for errors (digital interconnection synchronization is expensive and complicated), mess with your recall possibilities and none of them even come close to modern ITB setups with regard to ease of use, flexibility, quality and price!
 
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moses said:
I've never seen a hardware digital mixer doing so. Plug-ins run inside plug-in host applications, i.e. on your computer.

What's the point of using a digital hardware mixer in 2013 anyway? Show me one digital hardware mixer that wasn't out of date and virtually worthless 2 years after its appearance!
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Really good Point.


[/QUOTE]a powerful computer and buy control surfaces to taste![/QUOTE]

Excellent Idea! first thought I had before buying the DM 4800.


[/QUOTE]Digital hardware mixers are a stupid concept and a waste of time and money. The world has zero need for a super short-living "tool" that offers solutions for issues that doesn't exist. They overcomplicate digital workflows like crazy, increases the potential for errors (digital interconnection synchronization is expensive and complicated), mess with your recall possibilities and none of them even come close to modern ITB setups with regard to ease of use, flexibility, quality and price![/QUOTE]

You brought up some very good points. My only reply is... Have you seen the controller market? Overpriced is an understatement.

1. MixLogic M24 2880.00
2. Avid controller bundle 3600.00 (24 faders)
3. Mackie Control Universal and 2 sidecar 2200.00

Audio interface 32 x32 (let's say decent, but not exceptional converters)

1. 2 RME Fireface 2-800 40 1800.00

I guess what I'm saying is for the price of only a control surface, you're getting a control surface and a decent interface. Worst case scenario, I use it as a control surface only.
 
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But, that's kind of the point: A digital mixer is nothing else than a control interface with standard converters and a very weak computer.

However, if one part breaks or doesn't keep up with your standards, you're stuck.

Control interfaces are expensive no doubt. It is expensive to build a nice physical control interface. But they also have true long term value. They will most probably still be useful and work properly in 50 years.

The shiddy computer inside the integrated hardware mixer will be out of date within months(!) and won't be able to run the latest formats. We've seen this pattern repeat over the last 15 year, again, show me one digital mixer that didn't look and act like a toy after 24 months! Not to mention the horrible work flow limitations such an external mixers imposes (highly unstable recall, no offline rendering, etc). Search ebay for digital mixers, you get them for a fifth of the original price!
 
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moses said:
But, that's kind of the point: A digital mixer is nothing else than a control interface with standard converters and a very weak computer.

However, if one part breaks or doesn't keep up with your standards, you're stuck.

Control interfaces are expensive no doubt. It is expensive to build a nice physical control interface. But they also have true long term value. They will most probably still be useful and work properly in 50 years.

The shiddy computer inside the integrated hardware mixer will be out of date within months(!) and won't be able to run the latest formats. We've seen this pattern repeat over the last 15 year, again, show me one digital mixer that didn't look and act like a toy after 24 months! Not to mention the horrible work flow limitations such an external mixers imposes (highly unstable recall, no offline rendering, etc). Search ebay for digital mixers, you get them for a fifth of the original price!
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I just can't see spending the same or more for a dedicated control surface. I've seen a used Avid Artist control/mix and they look like shit. They are not going to last any 10 years and maybe not even 3 years. They're made of of plastic and never got a reputation for having "high end" faders.
 
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