ableton live 9- mixing down W/ compression/limiter - what do you use?

[manchesterraver]

hi , i am trying to get a rather flat mix down at the moment on a few projects,
when i listen to a track by hot since 82 for example his mix downs seem flat, they can be turned up quite a lot without anything sticking out of the mix , and i am going to assume this is mostly the levels and some compression or similar technique to reduce the dynamics , but when i use a compressor i end sacrificing the quality , the hi high hats tend to start sounding over processed/tinny/crunchy and i loose the punch from the track, , but if i don't use any processing and turn down the channels that stick out I.E snare drums / hats vocals then everything else is to loud / kick drums bass,

i have the fab filter Q, L C/ mb that's what i am using for multiband dynamics at the moment.



any tips or views would be great !

thanks

Manchesterraver

 

[Curious Styles]

Anywhere you can, use compression on individual instruments. The point of compression is bringing a single sound out and the negative effect is fattening other sounds too much. If you do it separately for everything you don't sacrifice anything else.

You should never use multiband compression on your master channel. You only use that when you have a sample with multiple instruments and you have to split one to compress it out of necessity. Unless you recorded everything flat to the same track, there's no good use for it. A regular compressor used subtly can be nice on your master channel, but *only* if your mix is already balanced.

 

[Wallengard]

Curious styles.. Those compression advice are inaccurate at best. You can use a multiband compressor in many more situations than what you describe, including this one if the occasion calls for it. And why would you say you should only use a Compressor if it's already balanced. Surely the compressor is often used to make balance from something that isn't already.

And no, don't use compressor anywhere you can. Use it wherever you want to.

Also I'd advice you from using words like "only", "always" and "never" when handing out advice about something that you're not 200% certain of. Clearly you are not.

@OP;

This is an extremely difficult (if not impossible) question to answer.

Are you familiar with how your plugins work? Are you familiar with how compression and limiting works and what different settings are actually doing to a sound?
If you're not, I'd suggest you study it.

These things take time, you should be getting better and better at it the more you practice but you also need to understand how they work before you can know when and how to use them.
Also don't underestimate the power of using reference material as you're starting to learn how to do things (or forever even). Use those tracks you want to sound like and study those, take notes and go back into your DAW and try to replicate what you're hearing. Along with getting to know how the plugins work you should get a long way doing this.. but of course, it's countless hours of practice, practice and practice.

 

[manchesterraver]

Thanks for the replies , yes ive been putting the hours in where possible, i have a reasonable knowledge of the techniques I am using , but i sometimes don't get the results i expect , i.e trying to fatten the low end of a kick drum without increasing the volume and causing the limiter to kick in to push against it , with that said , one would naturally think EQ would be the solution , but in most cases i cant get the punchy sound i want out of said kick or sample , so i would end up searching through sample library's to find a better sound ,

An example of this would be something like vengeance sample packs , the kicks are (mostly) very punchy and hard hitting , but when i attempt to curve my sounds into a similar level of punch , it never sounds right , but the audio engineers at vengeance seem to pull it off very well in getting the most out of the sound , this applies across everything, not just bass and drums , but with stereo widening and mids and highs , ....

I have been utilising the haas effect to widen my tracks that i want wide , but i wouldn't mind anyone that has tips on similar techniques , and as far as compression goes , i understand what i hear in the difference , i just expect more drastic results than i am getting i suppose ,

Thanks again for the replies ,

All opinions welcome . ?

 

[Wallengard]

Layering is a proven technique that works excellently if you know how to work with it properly. In your case, not getting the right sound from a sample using compression and limiting is hardly a surprise given that the source you're working with isn't punchy already. With that said, getting the timbre right in the first place is the only way to really achieve what you want, if that means going back to pick another sample or simply layer something on top of it to get the desired effect, then so be it. That's how it should be.

One common idea is to think that "yeah this sounds great but not perfect so I'll just fix it later with a bit of compression and eq". While it might work in a way, it won't really do the sound justice if the timbre of the sound isn't already perfect. The processing techniques will shape the sound one way or the other, but it won't turn it into something it's not.

You would need to learn how to distinguish whether it's the lack of processing or the actual sound itself that is to blame.

Also in my opinion, the vengeance samples sound like over processed crap and I personally wouldn't aim to get my stuff to sound like that.

 

[GETRICH420]

Errr, I disagree with this. If you use compression and a limiter in the master channel you can make a mix much, much louder.

I've been using waves L3 for my limiter and experimenting with different compressors because they are pretty unique in the way they sound.

Anywhere you can, use compression on individual instruments. The point of compression is bringing a single sound out and the negative effect is fattening other sounds too much. If you do it separately for everything you don't sacrifice anything else.

You should never use multiband compression on your master channel. You only use that when you have a sample with multiple instruments and you have to split one to compress it out of necessity. Unless you recorded everything flat to the same track, there's no good use for it. A regular compressor used subtly can be nice on your master channel, but *only* if your mix is already balanced.