What can I do to improve my kicks?

DeJunky

New member
So I'm kind of crossing over into learning a lot of mixing techniques now that I've been producing for a year. One issue that I have is that my kicks never seem to hit as hard as they should. I usually EQ out the really lows that would clash with the sub and I cut the highs just enough to where it still sounds punchy. I always sidechain the kick to the sub as well as other instruments. What plugins do you guys usually use on your kicks? to get a good full sound?
 
If your making the kicks on a computer, you can double the kick notes up (two of the same note) so the sound waves grow. I'm not a physicist, but I'm pretty sure the soundwaves grow when you reinforces them with another hit on the same note. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

If you're on a real drum set, hit the kick drum harder. lol :p
 
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Have you tried panning? That way you can hear more of the kick in one ear and hear the other parts of the track in the other ear
 
EQ won't actually do much as far as punch, since ultimately you want to enhance the transients by controlling the dynamics of a selected band.

Two options come to mind.

Personally, I use the Waves - Hybrid Compressor.

It's an excellent parallel compression unit that actually has a "punch" feature that you can blend in with your mix.

Alternatively, you can use a multi-band compressor in the same way as you would your EQ and feel out that "punch" frequency band, then you can add fast attack compression, no hold, with a slower release, and boost the dB up of that range.
 
Yup, layering and/or compressing and expanding the transients will work.

On a more general level, and listening to your track, the problem you're dealing with is that your kick and subbass are around the same frequency range. It is a bit of a black art getting that right,
made worse by the fact that you're probably not on kit and in room with the best bass-response (neither am I for that matter).

Beyond the dynamics processing, equalization and balance within the track is really important:

-first check your analysers to see if you're dealing with an actual lack of bass, or a lack of perceived bass. Remember that your speakers and/or headphones aren't telling you the whole story here...
I checked some of your tracks (which wasn't a chore btw, nice vibes) and the bass is there. Dark Beat has a nice sub, Open Sky has a nice kick.. that's not the problem.
So, the bass is there, it just doesn't stand out... so we know that boosting/compressing isn't gonna do that much..

-keep in mind that the 808-like kicks you seem to prefer are actually kind of a hybrid sound: it's a transient click with almost no body but instead a sub-bass tone.
The problem with those (near-) pure low end sine waves is that you don't really hear them. You can feel them if you have large enough speakers in a large enough room (think dub soundsystem).
The stuff that you actually hear on normal sets and headphones as 'sub-bass' are the overtones, harmonics, distortion. They give the impression of bass and go a long way in making it stand out.
You might want to look at adding tiny amounts of distortion to your sine-like basses.. not enough to destroy the sound, but just warm it a little... This is why back in the day people would record their
stuff onto tape recorders and overdrive the signal a little. With analog gear, you don't get clipping but you get a nice little distortion. If you don't overdo that, it's nice and really key to getting that classic warm sound everybody likes. So you might want to try going at it with some distortion or saturation.

-use filters instead of your regular EQ on the low-end..
For a bunch of technical reasons and maths I don't understand either, eq'ing your low-end tends to mess with the phase and cause unwanted changes, making it very untransparent and unpredictable.
The way around this is with a linear phase EQ plugin, but they're HEAVY as shit to run.. as a stopgap using LP and HP filters actually don't have that phasing problem nearly as much and behave much predictably.

-back to those overtones and harmonics.. a lot of the stuff that will make your bass interesting and add that perceived weight actually happens a few bands above the sub, around 120-450 hz..
so you'll want to give it room to breathe there. If you have those (near-)sine waves with just a tiny bit of saturation, the action in that range is gonna be subtle, so you don't want to cake it with a lot of other
attention grabbing stuff there... especially not on anything you want vocals on, because they'll be fighting for that space too.

-back to the balance:
while you're stringently cutting low-end out of everything that doesn't really need it, cut off all the high end you don't really need too. Counter-intuitive? Yes! Smart? Yes!
The same logic applies here: a lot of very high end you don't even hear, let alone need on anything but your hihats for instance. A lot of sounds will have high end you don't need.. especially working with samples and patches, they process everything to sound big and bright, but you don't necessarily want that in your mix. Because the energy in those high frequencies will build up and make your high end too messy. Once you compress the whole thing, it won't be nice, bright and shimmery but harsh and nasty.. Having a nice controlled high-end will allow you to go much louder overall and just create a much nicer and brighter sound, that seems to have more bass because there's simply more contrast. Think of it like this: dark pictures look best on bright TV's ;)

PS> also don't be afraid to just throw limiters on there. Compressing isn't gonna much anyway with very low frequencies.. you're basically just changing the amplitude ;)
The entire reason for using certain compressors (analog ones) isn't the dynamics control, but that tiny bit of saturation they add when you overdrive them a bit.. (and the fact that they react differently to different input levels)

Anyway, none of this is set in stone... hope this helps a bit though..
 
just to add on to what these guys are saying: I find what works for me is to mix everything around the kick. Gain stage everything and start your mix with the kick. Even if you have to turn your monitors up because your gain stage is low - you will handle the volume deficit in the mastering phase.
 
I got my kicks thumping with EQing, Peak controller, and compressing alone. If you make everything else a little more quiet and focus on the drums then mastering is much easier and you'll see your kick bangs hard AF. Can't really say how to set it up, as each kick is different, check my beat out.
 
If you find yourself having to do alot of processing on your kicks to make it punch through it might be best just to use another kick sample altogether. Processing should complement your drum samples, and ultimately your kick should sound ok before adding any fx to it. Like Mass said, some EQing and compression typically gets the job done on a good kick (most drum samples today already come compressed, so add wisely).

You can also try sidechaining some of your instruments to your kick so it punches through nicer. This method is typically used more in dance/edm genres but can be equally as effective used in hip hop. Just don't go crazy on the ducking.

You could also make your low end less busy. High cut some of your less bass heavy track elements (mostly everything besides your bass and your kick).
Hope some of these tips help.
 
You can for example:
1. Distort them to add additional harmonics
2. Layer 808 with short kicks
3. Make other sounds in the mix quieter
 
All the ideas above will totally work well,

some go to things for me:

-Transient shape with MB or specific plugs that can manipulate attack/sustain, making percussive elements more pointy or tight/loose
-Harm Dist/EQ(all in full context of mix or weird freq balance will be noticeable) your kicks/etc to emphasize percussive frequencies present in your tracks
-Dont compress or saturate beyond the point of attack/sustain being perceivable----any type of dynamic manipulation will just freakin erode the nature of attack/sustain for your "hit" in question if pushed beyond musical limits
-add samples that naturally have killer attack or add killer attack when combined with the tracks given/being used
-go hunting for whatever is competing for space with your already present attack/percussive-ness of your kick and balance those items until attack can be heard and you also haven't mangled them in the process

Its not really all or nothing with those things, just some ideas. plus like said: everything mentioned already/above will do you just fine with some focus and sensibility

best

-MadHat
 
you can actually put a sub bass in the same note as a kit but with a lower volume to give the kick at bit of more power
 
Don't fanny about with compression / transient shapers / EQ if you can just alter envelopes in the sampler. Those things are for RECORDED DRUMS not midi.

Don't fanny about with layering kick drums together if you can just try a different one of the 1000000000000000 kicks everyone has.

If you can't get a kick to work or want more control, try this:

A kick has 2 components: a click and a boom. Find a kick (or even a snare) that you like the first 10-20 milliseconds of and literally use only that first bit. Find a kick you like to body of. Put the two on the same midi note. Low pass the body sound. Now you have an independent click and boom, and you can change the colour of the kick with the LP filter and/or pitching of the boom sample. The click is the most important part in getting the psychoacoustics right in the mix. The good thing is that since the click is separate you can't f**k up the transient with EQ or filtering. So you can set the filter as low or high as you want, change to boom's pitch too, no side effects. The click remains at the mix level you set.


You might have to tweak the relative delay of the two to alight them better. Just to avoid a clip-cloppy sound.

Or of course you can do what I do and not give a f**k about it. Just an idea.
 
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Don't fanny about with compression / transient shapers / EQ if you can just alter envelopes in the sampler. Those things are for RECORDED DRUMS not midi.

Are they now?
Shit I've been doing it all wrong for years..
You are right though.. these are all ideas to pick one or two from. Overprocessing it is almost never the way to do it, unless you really know what you're doing.

To me that kind of engineering IS the fun.. flipping through hundreds of drum samples definitely isn't. I don't sweat my drum sounds because I know I can shape them
any which way I want AS I build out the track, make them tailored for the track each time. Once I get past that building phase, I almost never have to go back on them or mess with them a lot.

If my fingerprints aren't all over a sound, I don't want it in my track...period.
I guess that's a big factor too. I don't work with great sounding sample packs.. i've got a lot of samples, the usual drum machine kits and my effects. On their own they all sound
pretty shit. But getting them to sound right is fun and way more satisfying than just breaking open a can of drum sounds and slapping them on. Once you know what you're doing
and how to get sounds you want from their basic components it's a lot faster to work too. You don't have to stop the track to flip through different drums or patches anymore and can keep jamming.
 
multiband transient designer (attack+sustain), compressor, limiter, plugins adding sub harmonics (Maxxbass, Rbass, Voice of God), reductive Eq, additive eq, Tape saturation (ATR-102), Saturation decapitator
 
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